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Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

nytimes.com

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Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#521

Post by axlprose »

vacri wrote: post #488
axlprose wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason why my comments shouldn't be analyzed critically either. So if you feel up to it, please do so. But the comment I responded to did not exhibit any logical analyses, nor any reminders to remain analytical.

> So if you feel up to it, please do so. Uh, I just did. Reductio Ad Hitlerum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum Overstating the case to extremes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man My point is that you're being a hypocrite, demanding someone else not discourage critical thinking, while exhibiting logical fallacies yourself. Shaming someone about 'discouraging critical thinking' through the use…

Critical thinking just involves analysis of arguments presented. If my arguments were fallacious, then I apologize, but you haven't exactly clarified how exactly I exaggerated the OP's claims, as opposed to just summarized them. I'll accept the godwin's law card, that was a slip.

Secondly, I did notice your analysis, but I was referring to the general "you", so that others can feel free to chime in and critique as well.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#522

Post by geofft »

axlprose wrote: post #485
geofft wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What takeaway should we have about those drunken coworkers? I see roughly three possibilities: * Their comments were funny / reasonable / etc.; there was nothing wrong with them. GP was wrong to find it disgusting. * Their comments were bad, but there's nothing we can do about them. Our society involves it being socially acceptable to tell jokes about how people should die because of their inability to articulate cle…

The 4th option would be to just not assign a moral value to their comments, and chose for yourself as an individual to not let yourself be offended by them. It doesn't mean the co-workers were right, but it doesn't penalize them if the didn't intend to be bad (because doing so would be a slippery slope to thought policing). Unless OP thinks his/her co-workers would face Pao in person and tell her those things, or wor…

So here's something that's always struck me as odd about these sorts of defenses of free speech. (This is something I've been thinking about for a bit, so I'm not picking on you specifically, you just reminded me of it.)

I believe in the power of speech. I believe that there is utility in being able to convey my thoughts, without someone else filtering or censoring them, to others. I believe that my words mean things, that they reflect what I believe. I believe that being a person "of your word" is an important thing: that when you say you will do something, you intend to do it. I believe that lies are, of themselves, clearly of negative moral value. (Which is not to express an opinion on whether lies can serve some greater moral good, just to say that they have inherent demerit.) I believe that if I care about my friends, I care about what they say; if I value my friends, I value what they say; if I respect my friends, I respect what they say.

It is out of that conviction that I think that restrictions on one's ability to speak, whether from a government or a private party, carry great power, which, like all power, can be abused.

If I don't assign a moral value to these coworkers' comments, if I don't care what they say, if I don't care to have opinions on their speech lest I risk "thought policing" them, if I believe that people may say bad things while intending to be good (or vice versa) and that's just okay... it seems that I have completely devalued the power of speech, and I have destroyed the very reason we care about free speech, without censoring a single word. If anyone can say anything and it could mean anything or nothing, and nobody cares, what is the point of speech?

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#523

Post by danielweber »

calbear81 wrote: post #199
josso wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not aggressive enough: > So why am I leaving? Ultimately, the board asked me to demonstrate higher user growth in the next six months than I believe I can deliver while maintaining reddit’s core principles. http://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/3cudi0/resignation_tha...

I can see how growing users organically was going to be tough, especially with the new community guidelines: 1) Pushing commercial IamAs was going to have a two-fold effect: increasing revenue and increasing traffic. Traffic would have basically come from Fortune 500 brands paying to drive traffic to Reddit via TV, online ads, etc. Companies today drive users to their own sites or to branded channels on YouTube or Fa…

#2 reminds me how reddit clamped down on the unauthorized nude photos, and then shamed the community for its behavior (correctly, IMHO). But then someone asked if reddit was going to refund all the gold purchased during and because of it, and AFAIK the admins just stopped talking about that. (If they did any more than say "that's a tough call" I missed it.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/2foivo/every_man_is_r...

It's tough to have a conscience when you are getting funding for violating it.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#524

Post by fragsworth »

MBCook wrote: post #237
lingben wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but at least she tried to stand up against some of the worst of Reddit. I'm baffled at how people misunderstand Ellen's actions in shutting down a few subreddits randomly. She did not 'clean' reddit of the worst of reddit nor 'hate' subreddits. In fact, there are still dozens and dozens of really disgusting stuff on reddit like /r/gasthekikes and /r/coontown Let's please stop this false narrative that she was a cha…

Let's make three categories of things on Reddit. One is innocuous (or relatively so) like /r/knitting or even /r/politics or /r/atheism. Perhaps there are big arguments but in the grand scheme of things it's not bad. Type two is /r/coontown or other hate subs. They're clearly offensive. I wouldn't let them on my site if I ran it, but they exist. The key here is they stay mostly to themselves. I wasn't aware of them b…

> Given the amount of stuff I've seen in the last year against various people in the games industry in other places, some of that organized on Reddit, I'm happy to see something done.

I'm not. I'd prefer all of the communities stay on a site like reddit, where specific users get banned for clear violations of harassment rules, rather than the entire communities getting shut down because of the actions of a few. Most communities on reddit had clear anti-harassment rules and moderators usually banned it when it was seen.

Now, instead, the communities are moving over to sites like voat.co and 8ch.net - communities that won't get policed in any way whatsoever. And in many cases, the communities encourage harassment, brigading, and general nastiness. This is going to make the Internet a worse place in general for all of us.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#525

Post by npizzolato »

morbius wrote: post #463
generic_user wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most disgusting posting I have seen is by our good friends the yellow journalists trying to weave there 'Reddit is misogynist' narrative. While Redditors are upset that Pao fires perhaps the most competent and well liked woman working at Reddit. Urinalism is largely discredited at this point due to there bias and agenda.

Victoria was beloved despite the fact she was a woman, not necessarily because of it. I understand what you're trying to say, but it doesn't really hold up.

Well isn't that a convenient narrative? Any woman the community likes is despite the fact she's a woman. Anyone they dislike is because she's a woman. The outrage writes itself!

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#526

Post by lingben »

pavs wrote: post #330
lingben wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that it was Sam who brought in Ellen, what do expect him to say? if that isn't enough to warrant 'corporatespeak' over-drive, consider that Ellen really enjoys suing her employers and she still hasn't been able to completely pay her legal fees for the last case she lost. Do you really want Sam to speak honestly about Ellen in public and open himself and reddit up to a lawsuit?

I think it was Yishan (former Reddit CEO) who brought in Ellen.

Yishan referred or suggested Ellen Pao, Sam and the board made the decision:

http://blog.samaltman.com/a-new-team-at-reddit

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#527

Post by vehementi »

austenallred wrote: post #294
yen223 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cucye/an_ol... The new CEO doesn't know how to make lists. Is he going to catch shit for it?

He should

Don't you mean, he should be fired, because he is the wrong person for the product, because he literally does not know how to use the site?

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#528

Post by pixl97 »

georgeglue1 wrote: post #333
generic_user wrote: post #221

The knife cuts both ways. The clickbait media and various groups are trying to paint the now predictable narrative of '50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again. Over 200,000 people with legitimate concerns sign a petition to have Pao step down yet they still carry on with there charade. People are sick and tired of the media and a small group of militant activists trying…

There are dozens of posts with 1000+ upvotes comparing Ellen with Hitler. As far as I can tell, there's something larger and terrible going on within reddit's community.

Could you possibly believe many of those same people also post here?! HN would just flag and ban you for saying it right off that bat.

Most people you know are in some form or fashion, an asshole. They quietly be a racist, sexist, nationalist to an extreme, have a fetish far beyond the norm, or other strange or socially unacceptable behavior. They just don't personally show it to you to avoid the judgement. It just seems like there are a whole lot more of them on Reddit because Reddit doesn't silence them. Let that settle in for a little bit. It's the anti-gay pastor that gets caught with a man, for example. That said, people are allowed to show their more negative sides without any repercussions things can become problematic and the more extreme can take over a community if enabled.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#529

Post by [deleted] »

codingdave wrote: post #205
post_break wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the limit? Coontown, does that get banned? Sexwithdogs? Incest? SRS? They seemed to hide behind the vail of harassment and not peak behind the curtain of what reddit really is. Reddits problem is they said anything goes, and then years later they saw what they created.

The limit is when the hate speech goes beyond online posts and starts encouraging harassment in real life. Simple as that. FPH crossed that line.

[deleted]

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#530

Post by stefantalpalaru »

mc32 wrote: post #505
nhf wrote: post #10

I think this was the right thing to do from a PR perspective. Having Steve back as the new CEO will definitely be good for the community. I also applaud Reddit's announcement for calling the community out on their childish BS: > As a closing note, it was sickening to see some of the things redditors wrote about Ellen. [1] The reduction in compassion that happens when we’re all behind computer screens is not good for…

I don't know if she was a bad leader or not. My big concern is this populist approach to firing people. Enough people don't like a company officer? Cobble a "movement" and generate enough controversy to force them to step down. I think unless they egregiously violate company policy or violate the law or do something which would bring damage to a company it should be up to the company to direct the fate of an officer.…

If you live by the public opinion, you die by the public opinion.
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