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Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

nytimes.com

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Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#471

Post by rtpg »

ElComradio wrote: post #100

PR that comes out of corporations cannot be trusted. We cannot trust Altman is being honest that he appreciated her efforts. We can't trust that her and her husband were in love. All of this that comes out of spokesmen is carefully crafted as a result of a numbers game. When do we hear "so and so CEO did a horrible job and was forced out by the board."? Never. So are we to believe there is no such thing as a terrible…

>We can't trust that her and her husband were in love

I'm sorry but this is total BS. The onus is on you to prove the "Pao's marriage is political to help with lawsuits" conspiracy-circlejerk, not on Pao to prove that her marriage isn't just a "normal" marriage.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#472

Post by magicalist »

AnkhMorporkian wrote: post #459
magicalist wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's lots more to it and by lots you mean...that's about it. Honestly if "There's the fact that she promised better moderator tools something like 6 months ago" was a good criteria for booting a CEO, Reddit would have had ~20 CEOs by now. That was the actual problem, that mods have never had the tools they need, but that's not why she's resigning/being fired.

No, there's more to it. Because I don't want to drag her personal life into it (which does play a role), there were the huge problems with the AMA app, the new privacy policy (which while I agreed with, many didnt), Reddit Notes (the reddit cryptocurrency; perhaps the most jaw-droppingly stupid move in her tenure), and really, many more things.

What you're describing are basically non-events in the history of bad decisions made at reddit (and like half of them come from Yishan's tenure, anyways). And reddit survived just fine every time, mind you.

There really wasn't anything overly egregious here except an angry internet mob. If it weren't for the subreddit blackout (which, again, was from an issue boiling over for years) timed so soon after the FPH shutdown I would give good odds it would have dissipated and we wouldn't be seeing this resignation today.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#473

Post by madeofpalk »

scrollaway wrote: post #300
badsock wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but those last two lines read to me like a callout to #gamergate's "It's about ethics in journalism" BS.

So now we're dropping random controversies in the middle of discussions to try make a point? This post is really attracting the worst in people.

Probably the most agreeable statement here, regardless of which 'side' you stand on.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#475

Post by nebulus »

scrollaway wrote: post #268
genericuser wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one said give her a pass, it was simply said the 'vitriol was appalling.' That simply means that the denizens of the internet when taken as a collective are horrible people who can not voice criticism in a civil manner. Assuming she was completely horrible and a terrible CEO... Assuming that! How could someone's lack of ability to do their job (or anything else for that matter) make the type of death and rape thre…

> But when you reply objecting to a comment that is basically just saying the type of hate a woman got on the internet was horrible So now she got all those threats because she's a woman ? What? You know the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory[1] right? It applies to male and females alike. And it's pretty scummy how your comment implicates GP said she "deserved to receive those threats", when all he/she did was to point…

Anonymity doesn't make any "normal person" start spewing death threats and rape threats. The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is just an excuse bad people tell themselves to justify their antisocial behavior.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#476

Post by scrollaway »

darkstar999 wrote: post #444
davmre wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This (deleted) Quora post is the best explanation I've seen thus far: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--N83GXLMb...

Pao specifically denied this screenshot.

And the US government denied Area 51 existed until 2013. Fire is hot, water is wet, PR is slimy.

There's no way to know whether it's correct or not, use your best judgement. Pao denying anything brings nothing to the table.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#477

Post by eli »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #305
Patrick_Devine wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an occasional user of reddit, this whole ordeal has confirmed the reason why I prefer not to hang out in its forums. I have no idea whether Ellen was a capable CEO, but the vitriol which I kept seeing peripherally (through other news articles and here on HN) was absolutely appalling.

This is the best description of reddit I've found so far: https://twitter.com/waxpancake/status/619625808403894272

As an aside, I think it's notable how Metafilter has maintained a high-quality link aggregation/discussion forum over many years through the use of community norms and relatively aggressive moderation.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#478

Post by scrollaway »

_jal wrote: post #461
scrollaway wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now we're dropping random controversies in the middle of discussions to try make a point? This post is really attracting the worst in people.

Seriously. Somehow this topic became a slightly less obnoxious Gamergate twittergasm. So, does anyone have guesses as to what the material issues were in the board wanting her gone? I confess to having little interest in Reddit most of the time, so I haven't paid attention to what's going on there (outside of the recent firing-related explosion).

> So, does anyone have guesses as to what the material issues were in the board wanting her gone?

Performance/track record aside, her name had become toxic to reddit. Sometimes you don't clean the stain, you buy a new shirt.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#479

Post by benaiah »

Nadya wrote: post #150
dimino wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came this close to not even knowing about this, until someone posted something in /r/dataisbeautiful about Ellen Pao's comment karma over time. Just like Facebook, it's almost entirely related to what you subscribe to/follow. /r/chess was entirely mum on the situation, for example.

This? https://i.imgur.com/nrYiK5M.png I find it telling it was negative a majority of the time. Usually "mods" get +1'd just for being mods (common on many forums). It shows, to me at least, that what she said rarely was supported by the community.

Note that this is a chart of per-comment karma, not a trend of her total karma. Thus explaining the sheer cliff between a largely-downvoted comment and a largely-upvoted one.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#480

Post by rcxdude »

eli wrote: post #388
scrollaway wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You think "the media" is intentionally causing confrontation as part of some collusion with Reddit to make money? GP isn't implying any collusion. The media is intentionally causing confrontation just fine on its own. > I saw racist and sexist posts personally Nobody is claiming the hateful stuff didn't exist. But painting "Reddit" as sexist while conveniently ignoring the 90-9-1 rule and focusing on Pao's gender i…

It's jarring -- that is, newsworthy -- to see overt sexist or racist remarks with hundreds of upvotes, suggesting at least widespread if not majority support. So, yeah, that fact is going to find its way into many articles. What is the argument against Pao anyway? It seems like the only non-personal complaints I've heard are that FatPeopleHate was banned and a well-liked moderator was fired on her watch. Is there mor…

>It's jarring -- that is, newsworthy -- to see overt sexist or racist remarks with hundreds of upvotes, suggesting at least widespread if not majority support. So, yeah, that fact is going to find its way into many articles.

There is a polarising effect which occurs in these kinds of threads (or communities discussions as a whole): once the vitriol has met a critical mass the more moderate people tend to just avoid the whole thing (not participating, likely not even observing). So all that's left are the extremists who keep perpetuating it.

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