Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief • Hacker News Board

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#371

Post by rosser » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:25 PM UTC

Uhhrrr wrote: post #354

squeaky-clean wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . The most critical things against Pao and her husband I have seen are posts about there phony extortion sexism and racism law suits. What about the subreddit comparing Ellen Pao to Pyongyang [0]. Jokes about Pao with over a +4000 positive score [1] [2] Jokes comparing Ellen Pao to Hitler. [3] I remember a post to /r/pics or /r/funny of Hitler's Wikipedia page, with Pao's photo instead of Hitler. I ran into some ol…

What's wrong with the jokes? Ellen is a grownup and a public figure. Jokes come with the territory. No one is seriously comparing her to Hitler.

Just because no-one is literally drawing a moral equivalence between her and Hitler doesn't mean it's not a shitty thing to say, or that you're not a dick for saying it.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#372

Post by magicalist » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:27 PM UTC

pkfrank wrote: post #142

ncallaway wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not made public why Victoria was fired. Neither of the parties are talking about it, so generally it's unknown. The /r/iama mods were not upset that she was fired. They were upset that there was no transition plan in place. > it seems like there was a lot of finger pointing before anyone knew what was actually happening There was finger pointing because nobody knew what was happening. Functions that Victoria w…

This is what many/most have overlooked. Victoria was the straw that broke the camel's back . Her firing was indicative of the lack of appreciation / recognition given to the moderator's, and was just another example of the disconnect and (perceived) exploitation of moderator time/effort without the proper support and tools.

> Her firing was indicative of the lack of appreciation / recognition given to the moderator's, and was just another example of the disconnect and (perceived) exploitation of moderator time/effort without the proper support and tools

Which long predated Pao at reddit. But even giving her the responsibility for this, nowhere is the apparent gross incompetence apparently seen by those calling so vociferously for Pao to be fired.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#373

Post by natmaster » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:27 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #288

generic_user wrote: post #221

The knife cuts both ways. The clickbait media and various groups are trying to paint the now predictable narrative of '50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again. Over 200,000 people with legitimate concerns sign a petition to have Pao step down yet they still carry on with there charade. People are sick and tired of the media and a small group of militant activists trying…

> . The most critical things against Pao and her husband I have seen are posts about there phony extortion sexism and racism law suits. What about the subreddit comparing Ellen Pao to Pyongyang [0]. Jokes about Pao with over a +4000 positive score [1] [2] Jokes comparing Ellen Pao to Hitler. [3] I remember a post to /r/pics or /r/funny of Hitler's Wikipedia page, with Pao's photo instead of Hitler. I ran into some ol…

What exactly is sexist about comparing someone to Hilter? Would the sexism change if the person being attacked fit under another demographic? Is it OK to criticize say Christopher Columbus because he is a white male. Please enlighten me.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#374

Post by golergka » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:27 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #366

golergka wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not that there is anything odd or wrong about that. I find it really strange when people talk about someone's personal life details and then say that there's nothing odd or wrong about it. Especially when right before that they say that their personal situation is "bizzare", and the reader kinda expects to learn, what is so bizzare about it. So, why did you bring his bisexuality up in that comment?

How do you know he's bisexual? You're guilty of making a vast assumption about the context. What would be wrong with a marriage of political or business convenience involving no sex, if that's what it is? Obviously nothing. You've matter-of-fact labeled his sexuality without knowing either way.

I just used the word to refer to the point made in the original comment. I didn't really make any statements or assumptions about this person, and my comment wasn't even about this person at all — my comment was about the semantics of the parent comment.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#375

Post by xienze » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:27 PM UTC

georgeglue1 wrote: post #333

generic_user wrote: post #221

The knife cuts both ways. The clickbait media and various groups are trying to paint the now predictable narrative of '50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again. Over 200,000 people with legitimate concerns sign a petition to have Pao step down yet they still carry on with there charade. People are sick and tired of the media and a small group of militant activists trying…

There are dozens of posts with 1000+ upvotes comparing Ellen with Hitler. As far as I can tell, there's something larger and terrible going on within reddit's community.

Bush was compared to Hitler endlessly. But that probably didn't bother you. Public figures, especially unpopular ones, are subject to ridicule. It happens.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#376

Post by Shivetya » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:29 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #335

Nadya wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick a topic with many shades of gray. Paint it black and white - preferably around a modern controversial issue (this day and age it's sexism/racism). Frame the narrative to fit the controversy ("50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again!") Ignore the 199,950 shades of gray and all other motivation behind the users and everything else. Zoom in to these 50 people. Cast the…

You think "the media" is intentionally causing confrontation as part of some collusion with Reddit to make money? Neither Reddit nor journalism generally is particularly profitable. And isn't painting all of the media in the same cynical light for the actions of, at most, a small minority pretty much exactly what you claim they did to you? I saw racist and sexist posts personally, so I know that's not a complete fabr…

did you happen to miss how sites like the NYTimes and such were disappointed with how her case played out? How that and and another played out? They have their playbook and cannot see outside of it to the point they are no longer able to see the world for what it is.

Social Justice has infected the media to the point that anything contrary to the desired story is either ignored, recast, or dismissed. You can go google the Confederate flag issue and find far too many stories trying to link Republicans with it when it was Democrat politicians who put it up fifty years ago and kept it there; apparently it was just too good an opportunity to slander the Republicans for something the Democrats didn't fix for the fifty plus years they controlled most of those states.

So yeah, the media intentionally causes confrontation and likely because the same focus groups they use/rely on are merely political machines created to drive people one way or another. Politicians and the media both need a divided population and they both damn well do their best to get it.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#377

Post by scrollaway » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:29 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #355

scrollaway wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're at it, there were two unpopular firings last month at reddit. The Reddit Gifts guy, who was let go without much fanfare, and chooter (Victoria), who got the entire website to support her, go dark in protest, and fast-forwarded Pao's resignation. But we don't mention those, no no. It's only "sexism" and "mysoginy" because we don't like what happened to a woman . When it's good for a woman, that's just shee…

I agree that, from the public information, it sounds like both of those terminations were potentially ill-advised. (There's also rumors that both of them were loosely tied to Yishan's everyone-in-SF policy, as it happens, but only rumors.) Obviously there's more going on than the public will ever know, unless Reddit corporate email ends up on Wikileaks, so I don't actually have an opinion on them because I don't have…

GP's example was that two reddit employees, in two similar situations, got treated differently. They had a different gender, and the woman was treated exponentially worse.

My example was that two reddit employees, in two similar situations, got treated differently. Thad a different gender, and in this case, the woman was treated exponentially better.

So my point was that you can play the "let's find the sexist" game. Or you can just admit that there are other circumstances at play. I'm not saying sexes didn't play a role, I'm saying Pao wasn't hated because she was a woman. Nobody gave two shits about her until she started making unpopular moves.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#378

Post by kaonashi » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:30 PM UTC

kozukumi wrote: post #82

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #32

“Ellen has done a phenomenal job, especially in the last few months,” he said. What exactly "phenomenal" has she done? Reddit works pretty much the same as it worked several years ago, but in the meantime she managed to piss off the majority of community, which is the only reason Reddit exists

I don't understand that either. I can't think of a single thing that she has done to make reddit better.

Is that out of the ordinary? What has any reddit ceo done to make reddit better?

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#379

Post by badsock » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:33 PM UTC

axlprose wrote: post #297

badsock wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but those last two lines read to me like a callout to #gamergate's "It's about ethics in journalism" BS.

So questioning ethics in any kind of journalism anywhere is automatically BS now because of some random highly-opinionated internet drama? Way to discourage critical thinking. Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

The topic at hand is journalism and misogyny. That particular phrasing was often used as a thin veil over many vile attacks on women in visible positions during the gamergate thing. I see a lot of similarities with what happened to Pao (not that I'm defending her in particular, she's pretty dodgy, but the hatred was palpable).

And really, you're on HN, this is not the place where you need to fly the "don't trust the media" flag with such earnestness. I doubt many people here do, certainly not me.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#380

Post by squeeze » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:34 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #288

generic_user wrote: post #221

The knife cuts both ways. The clickbait media and various groups are trying to paint the now predictable narrative of '50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again. Over 200,000 people with legitimate concerns sign a petition to have Pao step down yet they still carry on with there charade. People are sick and tired of the media and a small group of militant activists trying…

> . The most critical things against Pao and her husband I have seen are posts about there phony extortion sexism and racism law suits. What about the subreddit comparing Ellen Pao to Pyongyang [0]. Jokes about Pao with over a +4000 positive score [1] [2] Jokes comparing Ellen Pao to Hitler. [3] I remember a post to /r/pics or /r/funny of Hitler's Wikipedia page, with Pao's photo instead of Hitler. I ran into some ol…

The way you make the unfavorable comparisons worse is by taking them seriously. I wouldn't suggest taking those co-workers too seriously either - it probably won't help.

Ellen Pao wasn't awful, but all-in-all, it's probably a good thing she stepped down. Hopefully, next time there's a huge community changeover or staff change in reddit, everyone will talk through it and about it reasonably, and everyone will be able to bat away the easily-led and the gleeful and/or bored shit-stirrers.