Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief • Hacker News Board

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#331

Post by axlprose » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:04 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #306

axlprose wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, seriously, what on earth are you addressing here? Who are you talking to? For anyone that's equally confused, I highly recommend reading the book "Trust Me, I'm Lying": http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Me-Lying-Confessions-Manipulator... What's happening right now isn't entirely intuitive, so it's understandable to be a bit lost, but what the parent is talking about is a serious, legitimate issue.

Is it possible to explain it in a few sentences for those of us who are confused but don't wish to read a book?

Basically, the nature of the internet and how it enables individuals to have much louder voices, has significant implications for the integrity and expectations of what we used to consider "news". The point being that the old idea of 'news' as many of us are used to, as being something that's even semi reliable, needs some serious rethinking, because 'news' undergoes significantly less curation now that outlets are competing against the lightning pace of social media.

The author gives his own various experiences as examples of how this new style of information flow in the media industry is easily exploitable, and frankly, it's quite scary. Not just because of what he could do, but because how natural and subtle it all the 'propaganda' seemed.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#332

Post by vruiz » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:05 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #267

j_baker wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not trying to say the two are comparable are you?

In what way are they not?

Objectively? Pao was criticised for her present actions while at the job, Eich because someone pointed at his past.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#333

Post by georgeglue1 » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:06 PM UTC

generic_user wrote: post #221

The knife cuts both ways. The clickbait media and various groups are trying to paint the now predictable narrative of '50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again. Over 200,000 people with legitimate concerns sign a petition to have Pao step down yet they still carry on with there charade. People are sick and tired of the media and a small group of militant activists trying…

There are dozens of posts with 1000+ upvotes comparing Ellen with Hitler. As far as I can tell, there's something larger and terrible going on within reddit's community.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#334

Post by zxcvcxz » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:06 PM UTC

zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #303

squeaky-clean wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . The most critical things against Pao and her husband I have seen are posts about there phony extortion sexism and racism law suits. What about the subreddit comparing Ellen Pao to Pyongyang [0]. Jokes about Pao with over a +4000 positive score [1] [2] Jokes comparing Ellen Pao to Hitler. [3] I remember a post to /r/pics or /r/funny of Hitler's Wikipedia page, with Pao's photo instead of Hitler. I ran into some ol…

> This whole thing was really disgusting and made me hate the average Reddit user They are not the average Reddit user. Probably a huge majority of Reddit users have no idea who Ellen Pao is.

Sorry you're getting downvoted. Even Ellen Pao claims the racist and misogynist are a small minority.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#335

Post by eli » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:07 PM UTC

Nadya wrote: post #319

eli wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible to explain it in a few sentences for those of us who are confused but don't wish to read a book?

Pick a topic with many shades of gray. Paint it black and white - preferably around a modern controversial issue (this day and age it's sexism/racism). Frame the narrative to fit the controversy ("50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again!") Ignore the 199,950 shades of gray and all other motivation behind the users and everything else. Zoom in to these 50 people. Cast the…

You think "the media" is intentionally causing confrontation as part of some collusion with Reddit to make money? Neither Reddit nor journalism generally is particularly profitable.

And isn't painting all of the media in the same cynical light for the actions of, at most, a small minority pretty much exactly what you claim they did to you?

I saw racist and sexist posts personally, so I know that's not a complete fabrication even if not every Redditor holds those beliefs. I found the posts of e.g. Pao as Hitler pretty jarring. If I were writing an article about Reddit and its CEO I probably would have mentioned them, not through any desire to stir trouble and certainly not as part of some money-making conspiracy.

And what does any of this have to do with Sam Altman or Ellen Pao?

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#336

Post by scrollaway » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:07 PM UTC

genericuser wrote: post #322

scrollaway wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But when you reply objecting to a comment that is basically just saying the type of hate a woman got on the internet was horrible So now she got all those threats because she's a woman ? What? You know the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory[1] right? It applies to male and females alike. And it's pretty scummy how your comment implicates GP said she "deserved to receive those threats", when all he/she did was to point…

>So now she got all those threats because she's a woman? What? No one in this chain of comments said that; besides maybe the GP you are defending. I referred to her as a woman and said the type of hate was horrible. There was no causation there. >You know the .... No shit, whats your point how does that justify ANYONE getting death and rape threats for doing their job in a manner others consider badly? So what if som…

> Look if a person does not want come across as supporting rape and death threats it is best not to disagree with posts which are only pointing out how horrible those type of threats are. It's a pretty basic idea. And if a person does want to support rape and death threats, they should just flat out say so, that way they can be removed as a user on whatever sites want to have actual conversations.

This is the same discourse BS that we get from politicians, name-dropping "terrorism" and "paedophilia" to pass random bills, laws or make people swallow unpopular opinions.

It's frankly repulsive seeing it happen here too. "Oh you disagree with me? YOU SUPPORT RAPE."

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#337

Post by tedunangst » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:07 PM UTC

generic_user wrote: post #313

magicalist wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most critical things against Pao and her husband I have seen are posts about there phony extortion sexism and racism law suits. All of which is factual information available to the public and even the media has to admit these things are facts. Oh please. You can disclaim the disgusting statements made all over reddit recently as not part of a coherent community or whatever, but don't pretend they didn't exist a…

The most disgusting posting I have seen is by our good friends the yellow journalists trying to weave there 'Reddit is misogynist' narrative. While Redditors are upset that Pao fires perhaps the most competent and well liked woman working at Reddit. Urinalism is largely discredited at this point due to there bias and agenda.

Protip: it's their, not there.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#338

Post by estel » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:07 PM UTC

zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #303

squeaky-clean wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . The most critical things against Pao and her husband I have seen are posts about there phony extortion sexism and racism law suits. What about the subreddit comparing Ellen Pao to Pyongyang [0]. Jokes about Pao with over a +4000 positive score [1] [2] Jokes comparing Ellen Pao to Hitler. [3] I remember a post to /r/pics or /r/funny of Hitler's Wikipedia page, with Pao's photo instead of Hitler. I ran into some ol…

> This whole thing was really disgusting and made me hate the average Reddit user They are not the average Reddit user. Probably a huge majority of Reddit users have no idea who Ellen Pao is.

Even if that's the case, they're a very visible component of Reddit's userbase, to the point that an outsider definitely might see them as representative.

If the default home page and /r/all can all be flooded with posts about her, it's not exactly a small group of extremists.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#339

Post by axlprose » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:09 PM UTC

magicalist wrote: post #323

axlprose wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So questioning ethics in any kind of journalism anywhere is automatically BS now because of some random highly-opinionated internet drama? Way to discourage critical thinking. Orwell and Huxley would be proud.

No, abruptly trying to turn a conversation about disgusting comments made on reddit into one on the "clickbait media has to be called out" is like a parody of the parodies of gamergate. I mean, it's like well into Poe's law territory.

Did you even follow the original parent's argument? He didn't just bring up "clickbait media" as a non-sequitur while defending reddit comments. He highlighted how everything in this whole mess so far can be explained through the lens of questionable media, and literally none of his analysis+critique has been addressed so far, all that's been done is point out how he sounded like some angry mob person. Please explain to me how that is a logical way to respond to a legitimate argument.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#340

Post by eli » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:09 PM UTC

axlprose wrote: post #331

eli wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible to explain it in a few sentences for those of us who are confused but don't wish to read a book?

Basically, the nature of the internet and how it enables individuals to have much louder voices, has significant implications for the integrity and expectations of what we used to consider "news". The point being that the old idea of 'news' as many of us are used to, as being something that's even semi reliable, needs some serious rethinking, because 'news' undergoes significantly less curation now that outlets are c…

So... news sites are getting less reliable. Ok. What does that have to do with Ellen Pao or the new CEO?