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Facebook’s Piracy Problem

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Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#231

Post by plorg »

tiatia wrote: post #222
plorg wrote: post #97

I have a friend/acquaintance who had a similar experience on YouTube itself. He had created a large number of instructional videos on his YouTube channel, and from them he was deriving a significant passive income (admittedly from the overbearing amount of ads he enabled). One day he received a takedown notice suggesting that his videos were illicit copies. His investigations led him to believe that another YouTube u…

> After several months of shouting In my experience a letter or even just an email from a lawyer does wonders here. Dunno why.

Forgive my rhetorical flourish, he actually did have lawyer who consulted on this. I don't have the complete information, because it wasn't a situation in which I was directly involved, but from what I (vaguely) understand about Google's ContentID and DMCA process he followed the procedure to dispute the claim and went as far as he could without suing, as he did not consider the cost to be worth it, having moved on to something else.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#232

Post by plorg »

minusSeven wrote: post #207
plorg wrote: post #97

I have a friend/acquaintance who had a similar experience on YouTube itself. He had created a large number of instructional videos on his YouTube channel, and from them he was deriving a significant passive income (admittedly from the overbearing amount of ads he enabled). One day he received a takedown notice suggesting that his videos were illicit copies. His investigations led him to believe that another YouTube u…

can you post the links to what you are talking about ?

I don't know if this is going to be useful to you, but here is the original channel, now suspended:

https://www.youtube.com/user/GeekSquadSupport

and here is one such video, including the logo of the original channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ0rEa-4mMk

If you spend enough time scrolling through the offending uploader's account you will find a whole block of videos blatantly taken from the channel known as GeekSquadSupport.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#233

Post by plorg »

viraptor wrote: post #129
plorg wrote: post #97

I have a friend/acquaintance who had a similar experience on YouTube itself. He had created a large number of instructional videos on his YouTube channel, and from them he was deriving a significant passive income (admittedly from the overbearing amount of ads he enabled). One day he received a takedown notice suggesting that his videos were illicit copies. His investigations led him to believe that another YouTube u…

I'd like to hear more of this story and what channels of communication were used exactly. DMCA is pretty clear on how this case should be handled and even if it's a stupid procedure that takes you down for a few days, I don't believe YT can legally refuse to act on the counter-claim. If they do and you relied on the income from those videos, you could sue them. So why did it take months? How were they blocked in the…

I would love to give you more precise details, but from what I gathered it was probably a mass ContentID claim. I do not recall if he was able to make a counter claim, because (at least as he told me) his account was suspended and he was unable to get to it. I did not know enough about the YouTube process at the time to get any more specific details, but I do know that he had a lawyer retained.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#234

Post by GhotiFish »

nemothekid wrote: post #170
GhotiFish wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post is stating that the way out society functions around the concept of data is incorrect. You're right in that some works do require significant budgets to complete. Is there absolutely no other possible way that such works could get funded without an individual person buying only one individual copy of that work to post-hoc fund it in aggregate? "No! Nothing but this system could ever possibly work. It's poin…

> Is there absolutely no other possible way that such works could get funded without an individual person buying only one individual copy of that work to post-hoc fund it in aggregate? That has very little to do with the matter described in the article - the "system" that exists today that the channel in the OP used doesn't require an individual person buying one copy - users can already watch the content for free on…

It could. Yes.

FOSS was always a hack, the desire was always that the content get released for the public good, and the intent was to use the licensing system to create an incentive for self-interested actors to release works to the public. Such a hack might not be necessary in the context of an economic system that incentivises the release of public works by it's nature.

In such a system, the movie exec would not want to say "we are going to use this software, not give any credit, nor contribute changes because software developer's notion of IP is outdated?" Because it would not be in that exec's interest. Perhaps because releasing updates to the software in and of itself earns them money, or maybe something else? I dunno, these conversations never seem to get off the ground so I rarely get to see ideas discussed.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#235

Post by morgante »

quadrangle wrote: post #229
morgante wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intellectual property is existed literally to protect intellectual property. Nobody cares about the IP of a rare gemstone because it's just plain old property. IP was existed literally to protect the fact that it's very expensive to produce an original idea/work/poem/video/etc. but very cheap to reproduce it. Reproduction getting cheaper only makes IP even more necessary.

> Reproduction getting cheaper only makes IP even more necessary. Insanity. Cheap reproduction means "IP" is that much more destructive. Mechanisms to stop plagiarism need to be entirely separated from laws against copying and sharing. Are you one of those people who thinks we shouldn't have public libraries?? Freely distributed and shared ideas are a social good, period.

> Are you one of those people who thinks we shouldn't have public libraries??

Every copy of a book in a library was bought, not randomly stolen from the author's personal library or illegally printed.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#236

Post by quadrangle »

morgante wrote: post #235
quadrangle wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reproduction getting cheaper only makes IP even more necessary. Insanity. Cheap reproduction means "IP" is that much more destructive. Mechanisms to stop plagiarism need to be entirely separated from laws against copying and sharing. Are you one of those people who thinks we shouldn't have public libraries?? Freely distributed and shared ideas are a social good, period.

> Are you one of those people who thinks we shouldn't have public libraries?? Every copy of a book in a library was bought, not randomly stolen from the author's personal library or illegally printed.

There's no similarity in this debate between accessing something private (that the owner didn't want published) and distributing/sharing new copies (or the same copy) of something published.

Every video copied to Facebook in the discussion here was originally a legitimate video uploaded to YouTube for public viewing.

If you want to continue the actual discussion about the place of the public library versus online sharing of ideas, you'll find only one reasonable distinction: the library isn't for-profit and putting ads on things. Facebook is awful here, but not because videos are being copied and shared — they are awful for their ads and tracking of people and their enabling of plagiarism (which is when someone makes fraudulent claims of authorship and has nothing to do with whether or not copies are made).

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#237

Post by finnyspade »

erebus_rex wrote: post #165
finnyspade wrote: post #162

I don't understand what Facebook is supposed to be guilty of... Is Facebook supposed to somehow know the video was uploaded to YouTube before? That would require Facebook to have an index of all the content on YouTube (an unreasonable proposal). The next best thing is to allow takedown requests which they do! The same thing can be done by reposting on Vimeo or any of a million sites. There just is no technologically…

Because they make their takedown process incredibly longwinded and kafkaesque. Not only did Destin promptly file his claim, but many of his fans repeatedly contacted facebook and Bauer about it. The fact that it took so long for either to even acknowledge the problem existed is evidence that facebook has little incentive to speed up the takedown process to a reasonable bureaucracy.

didn't the article say 2 days? That's not exactly horrible response time.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#238

Post by guscost »

lmm wrote: post #215
guscost wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I'll bite. As someone who could reasonably be called a creative person, I've happily shared work for free or cheap. This is great as you say, but all indications are that I'd have to work worse hours, live rougher, and probably risk burning out several more times to have any chance of supporting myself full-time doing this. So I work a day job doing, well, rather less exciting enterprise work, and I make a comfor…

So is copyright helping your endeavours more or less than it's hurting them? E.g. is your cover technically copyright infringement? Would it be easier to sell this kind of thing in a world without copyright?

Hmm, I don't make any money from it, so... maybe? It's a good question.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#239

Post by forrestthewoods »

quadrangle wrote: post #230
forrestthewoods wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did embrace it. We passed laws to embrace and encourage the creation of new ideas. It's called copyright. It works pretty well when enforced. Less well when it's not. There may be choices that are even better. Policy proposals are welcome.

Copyright has never worked well.

Sure it has. Copyright has worked reasonably well for a variety of content creators. Authors are on that list. By extension it's worked well for content consumers because those creators were enabled to create more content to be consumed.

There's plenty of discussion to be had on improving copyright. Making it better. I think it's definitely been an net benefit.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#240

Post by Buge »

beedogs wrote: post #155
Buge wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had someone steal one of my videos on youtube. I reported it for infringement and it was taken down in 30 minutes. I found that pretty impressive. A month ago one of my videos about a reported and fixed XSS vulnerability was taken down for violating some rules (it didn't say what rules exactly). I submitted an appeal and it was reinstated a few days later. Several years ago one of my videos that used some public do…

So... uh... I guess it works sometimes in favor of the actual content owner. But I'm not sure what your point is.

He posted an anecdote of a bad thing happening to a friend and it not being resolved.

I posted how all 3 times I've had something negative happen on youtube, it was resolved through the appeals process. I'm trying to give hope/advice to people that appeals do work in many cases.

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