Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#21

Post by jerf » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:19 PM UTC

Because they can't change their recommendations without admitting they were wrong, and governments generally can't do that. Or, at least, the speed with which they can change their recommendations is sharply bounded by ensuring they never quite have to admit fault. Admitting you were wrong is basically begging to have your funding cut, your reputation trashed, your influence removed, your job cut. The closest thing a government can do to admitting being wrong is if they can say a previous government was wrong, but now we're right. But for these administrative posts there's never a clear turnover for that to occur.

Public policy adds the additional problem that if they admit they were wrong about what was possibly the single clearest message the government has sent the US public in the last 50 years, "Fat is bad for you!", the public will very likely and entirely rationally start asking very pointy questions about how such volume could be combined with such error, and what else being communicated with such volume and confidence today may also be wrong.

The government has a ton of moral capital tied up in fat being bad for you, so it has to be bad for you. It has to be bad. It just has to.

As an individual, you may find it profitable to consider whether this is the sort of incentive structure that produces an authority you want to bet your life on. Considering whether there are similar issues where the government may have gotten stuck on a particular answer and now can not change its mind pretty much regardless of what facts come in left as an exercise for the reader.

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#22

Post by innguest » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:20 PM UTC

sarciszewski wrote: post #6

Heh. I switched to a high fat, moderate protein, almost zero carbohydrate diet back in April and lost 40 lbs so far.

And yet when I say that the government doesn't like fat because it makes people healthy (less dependent on the government) and faster thinkers (less likely to blindly trust the government) people downvote me.

Impact of obesity on the brain, memory and intelligence:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/obesity-messes-brain

"Obesity has been associated with a reduced total brain volume and diminished gray matter density."

http://www.mpg.de/4280661/obesity_brain_structure

"But as scientists are learning more about the critical role white matter plays in cognition, new research suggests that obesity may target white matter integrity, leading to a decline in human cognitive performance."

http://www.dana.org/News/Obesity_Linked_to_Changes_in_Brain_...

EDIT: downvoting is one way to cope with cognitive dissonance but it does not help motivate those that are trying to lose weight.

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#23

Post by mason240 » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:22 PM UTC

alextgordon wrote: post #15

thesis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once upon a time I did the ketogenic diet which bases the bulk of your daily calories from healthy natural fat. No carbs allowed except for carbs from fiber. I, along many other people who have did this diet have lost a lot of weight. It's simply not true that you can't lose weight by eating primarily fatty foods.

Most Americans could not sustain a ketogenic diet for any amount of time, so it is pointless for the purposes of a national health body.

>Most Americans could not sustain a ketogenic diet for any amount of time

Why not?

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#24

Post by CuriouslyC » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:23 PM UTC

thesis wrote: post #8

CuriouslyC wrote: post #2

A large part of the issue is that in the traditional American diet, a significant portion of fat intake is in the form of saturated fat. There is a decent amount of research showing saturated fat has inflammatory effects in the body and directly causes insulin resistance. For a long time doctors have had success encouraging patients to eat diets excluding America's primary sources of saturated fat (red meat, bacon/la…

I'm having trouble with your comment. Do you mind expanding on it? It seems like you are against both saturated fats and carbs. Is that correct?

I'm not against all saturated fats, actually short and medium chain fatty acids are incredibly beneficial for health. The issue is more with longer chain fatty acids, particularly palmitic acid (which is the fatty acid your body synthesizes to dispose of excess carbohydrates).

I am definitely not against carbs in general, though sugars containing fructose are definitely a bad choice in terms of general health. In my opinion, carbs are healthier than fats as long as you can dispose of them quickly; elevated blood glucose is a real problem though. For people who are sedentary and have poor insulin sensitivity, mono- and poly- unsaturated fats will generally be a better choice in terms of overall health.

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#25

Post by cornholio » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:23 PM UTC

Because fat has 9 calories / gram, carbohydrates have 5 and water has zero. So while a tint of olive oil in your salad might have some theoretical health benefits if you are skinny, replacing those deep fried chips with baked chips has immediate benefits if you are overweight - you will probably eat the same quantity anyway but half the calories.

Fat makes you fat without a proportional decrease in your appetite, it's as simple as that.

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#26

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:23 PM UTC

lsniddy wrote: post #17

CuriouslyC wrote: post #2

A large part of the issue is that in the traditional American diet, a significant portion of fat intake is in the form of saturated fat. There is a decent amount of research showing saturated fat has inflammatory effects in the body and directly causes insulin resistance. For a long time doctors have had success encouraging patients to eat diets excluding America's primary sources of saturated fat (red meat, bacon/la…

That is curious, considering our rates of heart disease and diabetes were a fraction of what they were today when people ate more saturated fats (e.g butter). And when switching to a diet where saturated fat is the primary energy source, people tend to lose weight and see an increase in insulin sensitivity.

[deleted]

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#27

Post by acconrad » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:24 PM UTC

innguest wrote: post #22

sarciszewski wrote: post #6

Heh. I switched to a high fat, moderate protein, almost zero carbohydrate diet back in April and lost 40 lbs so far.

And yet when I say that the government doesn't like fat because it makes people healthy (less dependent on the government) and faster thinkers (less likely to blindly trust the government) people downvote me. Impact of obesity on the brain, memory and intelligence: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/obesity-messes-brain "Obesity has been associated with a reduced total brain volume and diminished gray matter density…

Correlation does not imply causation my friend. Carbs do not imply obesity, neither does fat. Only excess calories (of any macronutrient, including protein) will lead to bodyweight storage, and eventually obesity.

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#28

Post by LanceH » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:29 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #21

Because they can't change their recommendations without admitting they were wrong , and governments generally can't do that . Or, at least, the speed with which they can change their recommendations is sharply bounded by ensuring they never quite have to admit fault. Admitting you were wrong is basically begging to have your funding cut, your reputation trashed, your influence removed, your job cut. The closest thing…

The next wave of food bans are worse because "everyone is an eventual consumer of healthcare" so the choice to ignore the government on some things is also being taken away.

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#29

Post by irishcoffee » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:30 PM UTC

lsniddy wrote: post #17

CuriouslyC wrote: post #2

A large part of the issue is that in the traditional American diet, a significant portion of fat intake is in the form of saturated fat. There is a decent amount of research showing saturated fat has inflammatory effects in the body and directly causes insulin resistance. For a long time doctors have had success encouraging patients to eat diets excluding America's primary sources of saturated fat (red meat, bacon/la…

That is curious, considering our rates of heart disease and diabetes were a fraction of what they were today when people ate more saturated fats (e.g butter). And when switching to a diet where saturated fat is the primary energy source, people tend to lose weight and see an increase in insulin sensitivity.

Off-topic, but every time I see the phrase "a fraction of what it was" I get a bit miffed. 99/100 is a fraction. 101/100 is a fraction. Every thing that gets measured in time intervals is always going to be a fraction of what it was before, bigger or smaller.

Re: Why Is the Federal Government Afraid of Fat?

#30

Post by saiya-jin » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 3:30 PM UTC

one thing i don't get with all these sways of opinions... everybody is so obsessed with what they eat and how much, nitpicking contents of this and that, instead of trying to match their intake with amount if activity per day. I know it's hard, i know you have to produce that nasty thing called sweat to actually achieve anything, but for christ sake... just do some activities! ideally daily, with some variability. But even half an hour early morning run every day will make huge difference in life.

it will make your life longer, and more interesting in the process, in practically every aspect (yes, including sex). We are all unique, so find whatever makes you sweat and feels like fun & challenge. Heck, after not consuming processed sugars for few weeks, eating something with them is rather disgusting experience, same goes for overly fatty foods. Taste for anything natural improves HUGELY.

of course, ideal scenario is good food + healthy activities. but the more you do work out, the less importance there is on quality of food to make you stay & feel healthy (this one is more complex topic, so let's say keep eating healthy).

what i would propose is similar to tobacco treatment - anything clearly unhealthy, add a tax that will go directly to health system treating all those heart attacks, diabetes and other conditions that people bring upon themselves by being weak and/or stupid. i know it's not that simple, but at least that's a move into some direction...