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Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

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Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#11

Post by douche »

drjesusphd wrote: post #7
apsec112 wrote: post #6

I find it amazing that someone can write so much about the cost of college, and yet treat tuition bills as if they were handed down on stone tablets at Mt. Sinai, rather than something colleges themselves might have any responsibility for. Colleges have become giant money-sucking machines, similar to Scientology. In fact, they're so similar that I made a handy comparison chart ( http://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/06/…

So who is getting all that money?

Useless middle-manager administration. Look up how many deans there are at your local university, and how many directors of mumble-mumble social justice mumble mumble. Or look at how many wildly expensive infrastructure projects are getting built, with very marginal usefulness.

Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#12

Post by milesskorpen »

douche wrote: post #11
drjesusphd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So who is getting all that money?

Useless middle-manager administration. Look up how many deans there are at your local university, and how many directors of mumble-mumble social justice mumble mumble. Or look at how many wildly expensive infrastructure projects are getting built, with very marginal usefulness.

I don't think this is fair.

Modern society expects universities to act in loco parentis. We expect them to prevent (or deal with the fall out from) school's alcohol culture. We expect them to prevent sexual assault, or respond to it with some kind of judicial system. We expect a fully staffed career center to help students revise resumes and draft cover letters. We expect them to have a full time staffer dealing with diversity issues, and another with Title IX, and another (few) with financial aid.

These are all new positions, and many are actually required by law.

If you want to argue against middle management, I'm not at all clear the schools are to blame. They're responding to clear demands from the government and from parents.

Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#13

Post by eli_gottlieb »

apsec112 wrote: post #6

I find it amazing that someone can write so much about the cost of college, and yet treat tuition bills as if they were handed down on stone tablets at Mt. Sinai, rather than something colleges themselves might have any responsibility for. Colleges have become giant money-sucking machines, similar to Scientology. In fact, they're so similar that I made a handy comparison chart ( http://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/06/…

Alyssa, if you want to know what happened, just look at state budgets. Public universities have seen their budgets cut at the same time that private universities have been able to gorge on low-interest student loans (whose collection is backed by the force of the government, and not subject to bankruptcy).

Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#14

Post by eli_gottlieb »

akrolsmir wrote: post #2

I wonder if there'd be room for a true alternative to an elite college. I've always felt that the value of such institutions was that it is the premier place to meet and befriend other smart students, not in the facilities or instructors who make up the bulk of the cost. Imagine: thousands of applicants from around the world vie for a spot in Nollege, a new kind of edtech startup. Admitted students are flown to the "…

That sounds like a wonderful job-training program, if very exploitative since it treats "students" as explicit work-doing profit centers but markets itself as educational rather than an apprenticeship. Problem is, that's not actually giving a university-level education in the core academic material of a real field.

You're not going to learn abstract algebra from an employer!

Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#15

Post by nhebb »

cfqycwz wrote: post #10
apsec112 wrote: post #6

I find it amazing that someone can write so much about the cost of college, and yet treat tuition bills as if they were handed down on stone tablets at Mt. Sinai, rather than something colleges themselves might have any responsibility for. Colleges have become giant money-sucking machines, similar to Scientology. In fact, they're so similar that I made a handy comparison chart ( http://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/06/…

I'd like to echo drjesusphd and ask if you could point us to any good information you've found on increasing per-student expenditures. My university likes to justify increasing tuition by pointing to a decrease in the proportion of a student's education that is funded by the state. The implication, is that per-student state funding has gone down and that's why tuition is going up, but state funding per student has re…

> It leads one to wonder what exactly they're spending all the extra money on.

I just looked up the operating budget for my alma mater (Oregon State University), and if I'm reading it correctly, administrative costs are about 1/3 of the total. Interestingly, the direct instruction and research portion increased 5% since last year whereas the administration portion increased 15%. And looking back 10 years, the the direct instruction and research costs increased 85%, whereas admin costs increased 110%. So the admin : education costs ratio appears to be slowly increasing over time.

Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#16

Post by [deleted] »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #13
apsec112 wrote: post #6

I find it amazing that someone can write so much about the cost of college, and yet treat tuition bills as if they were handed down on stone tablets at Mt. Sinai, rather than something colleges themselves might have any responsibility for. Colleges have become giant money-sucking machines, similar to Scientology. In fact, they're so similar that I made a handy comparison chart ( http://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/06/…

Alyssa, if you want to know what happened, just look at state budgets. Public universities have seen their budgets cut at the same time that private universities have been able to gorge on low-interest student loans (whose collection is backed by the force of the government, and not subject to bankruptcy).

[deleted]

Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#17

Post by oldmanjay »

milesskorpen wrote: post #12
douche wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Useless middle-manager administration. Look up how many deans there are at your local university, and how many directors of mumble-mumble social justice mumble mumble. Or look at how many wildly expensive infrastructure projects are getting built, with very marginal usefulness.

I don't think this is fair. Modern society expects universities to act in loco parentis. We expect them to prevent (or deal with the fall out from) school's alcohol culture. We expect them to prevent sexual assault, or respond to it with some kind of judicial system. We expect a fully staffed career center to help students revise resumes and draft cover letters. We expect them to have a full time staffer dealing with…

I'm completely flummoxed by the notion that universities need a private justice system. The potential for abuse is staggering.

Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#18

Post by jmspring »

apsec112 wrote: post #6

I find it amazing that someone can write so much about the cost of college, and yet treat tuition bills as if they were handed down on stone tablets at Mt. Sinai, rather than something colleges themselves might have any responsibility for. Colleges have become giant money-sucking machines, similar to Scientology. In fact, they're so similar that I made a handy comparison chart ( http://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/06/…

I'd just like to know the increase in administrative staff and their salaries against the rise in tuition. Local University has many more Assistant, Vice, etc. Deans and Chancellors than it did when I was there awhile ago.

Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#19

Post by milesskorpen »

oldmanjay wrote: post #17
milesskorpen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is fair. Modern society expects universities to act in loco parentis. We expect them to prevent (or deal with the fall out from) school's alcohol culture. We expect them to prevent sexual assault, or respond to it with some kind of judicial system. We expect a fully staffed career center to help students revise resumes and draft cover letters. We expect them to have a full time staffer dealing with…

I'm completely flummoxed by the notion that universities need a private justice system. The potential for abuse is staggering.

While you might be flummoxed, colleges & universities are facing substantial federal pressure to have this kind of system.

Re: Our Universities: The Outrageous Reality

#20

Post by majormajor »

aswanson wrote: post #8
akrolsmir wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that prestige is a combination of fame and selectivity; a school is prestigious if everyone has heard of it, but few get in. A long history is certainly helpful (a ranking of UC schools by age would probably correspond to a ranking by prestige), but I think that a genuinely good product and clever marketing should be able to bridge the gap.

prestige is a combination of fame and selectivity I recall a debate on the value of college( Peter Thiel vs some college admins) and Thiel asking his opponent (a university administrator) if Harvard is providing such a great value to the world why are they making it so hard to obtain for people? Good question.

Wouldn't the answer be the same reason not everyone is accepted into YC, or why Thiel doesn't personally fund everyone under the sun?
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