How to avoid the software salary ceiling • Hacker News Board

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#11

Post by RogerL » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:18 PM UTC

"We can't hire 3D graphics people"

"I'm teaching myself 3D graphics"

There's more than a hint here. It's not hard to hire competent people and then give them space to grow. As engineers, that is what we want, to grow, challenge yourselves. And it is the only way that experience occurs. If you as a company are not willing to invest in that, don't be surprised when people don't walk in your door and agree to do exactly the same things they've done 5x already, with no opportunity for growth.

I'll take a job that offers great opportunity and a mediocre salary any day. The vice versa not so much.

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#12

Post by pravka » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

iaw wrote: post #4

svisser wrote: post #3

"I worked at Google so treat me differently" shows up several times in this article.

It's unclear to me if that was his message or if he was trying to get across the more nuanced "my experience at Google should be a signal about my qualifications"

The latter certainly describes the impression I got from the references to his employment at Google.

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#13

Post by heynk » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

jblok wrote: post #5

What other specialisms aside from WebGL/graphics, and QA, as mentioned, might be open to a standard web developer?

Security. Also 'growth hacking'; I'm not sure if that will actually up your salary, but knowing "everything" about SEO, analytics, a/b testing, email marketing, blah blah can definitely specialize you within an org.

EDIT: Employers also hire for 'tech stack' specialization, even though it's usually not necessary. For example, I'm only really recruited because I have demonstrate-able Rails expertise. In reality, I've also worked in Node.js and Java environments, and I'm pretty much just as productive after a few weeks.

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#14

Post by zo1 » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:22 PM UTC

The other thing that's somewhat related to this is the old "X years of experience means this range salary". Nothing like that cold, hard statement to remind you that the person across from you sees you as nothing but a cog or entry in a balance sheet. It immediately puts everything you've done, no matter how incredible/complicated/significant, down as if it's irrelevant.

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#15

Post by RogerL » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:22 PM UTC

svisser wrote: post #3

"I worked at Google so treat me differently" shows up several times in this article.

It was pretty much - whiteboard interviewing is stupid. BUT, if you for some reason value it, recognize I already went through a much harder version of it and passed." That's entirely reasonable, and not entitled, it's just facts.

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#16

Post by base13 » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

jblok wrote: post #5

What other specialisms aside from WebGL/graphics, and QA, as mentioned, might be open to a standard web developer?

You can always specialize by domain. It's not too hard to take general web development experience and apply it to finance for a nice pay raise. You can do even better by transitioning away from web stuff to "core" parts of financial systems like trading or risk systems.

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#17

Post by dangero » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:30 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #6

Or just be a CONSULTANT and raise your rates usng the wealth of information like patio11. Seriously, FTE is considered "the" way to fo by far too many people. Is it really that hard to manage your own health insurance plan and deduct taxes?

I've been working as a consultant for a number of years and I think the biggest difference is the inconsistent salary. As I recall there was a recent poll someone posted on HN and that was the main reason people don't go into consulting. Consulting also suits a certain type of person because it's a hustling game. You can always make more, but that means there's no light to flip off at 5pm.

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#18

Post by philrapo » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:31 PM UTC

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #8

dudul wrote: post #2

"Many people reach senior software engineer, and then they get stuck. They’ll still be a “senior” level developer 5 or 10 years later. For many, getting stuck is just fine. They like coding, and they don’t want to manage people, and the money is pretty good." I have a problem with this part. Basically, being a developer and not making it to a managing position is "getting stuck". I strongly disagree with that. Develo…

I think he means stuck financially, not career wise since they have chosen to stay as a developer. His answer to how to move ahead financially is to specialize. So maybe that is the general advice is to find something to specialize in or you are just seen as a commodity by management. If you are a commodity (e.g. general web developer with X years) then you may not get higher rates.

"specialize" is good advice to get paid more. Specialization is why wall street people get paid so much.

There are typically only a handful of people with relevant expertise trading [XYZ esoteric product], and when a company wants to enter that new business line, they have no choice but to settle for someone inexperienced or pay up for specialization.

Choosing the proper specialization is a different story...

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#19

Post by bryanlarsen » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:33 PM UTC

Good strategy, bad choice of specialties.

There are lots of 3D graphics professionals working on video games, which is a notoriously over-worked, under-paid field. To hire 3D graphics professionals:

1. go to a video game hub, like Montreal

2. offer sane working hours

3. there is no step 3.

Notice the complete lack of any mention of salary.

Re: How to avoid the software salary ceiling

#20

Post by mattdeboard » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

I agree with the premise of this article (if you wanna get paid, specialise) as it strongly echoes my own, perhaps limited, experience.

I am a generalist. I like being able to solve problems across a wide spectrum of fields. Working at a startup for the last three years has given me plenty of time for that. The flipside is that I have not had much opportunity to specialise. I take pride in being comfortable diving into anything. However this has meant I don't have DEEP knowledge of a specialist.

At a previous job, I was able to dig really deep on Solr and build some expertise. In the intervening years however most of that has become way outdated.

Also I've found (in an admittedly limited sample size of interviews) that jobs seeking "full stack" developers tend to really be seeking someone to fulfill a specialised role but ALSO be comfortable moving up and down the stack as the need arises.

So obviously in my next job I've been looking for more established organizations where my opportunity to specialise in something I enjoy is greater. I think I've found one and am quite excited about it.