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Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

nytimes.com

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Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#11

Post by jebblue »

gnu8 wrote: post #2

The headline belies the utter ridiculousness of the idea. Why would the United States and United Kingdom be singled out to have backdoor access to all communications? To hang onto the tattered remnants of their empires while keeping their own people in line despite their declining political legitimacy.

The united States isn't an empire, that's what it was formed to get away from. It's a collection of people, living in different communities called states that strive to stay united to form a more perfect union. It isn't a perfect experiment because people are not perfect but it's the best effort history has seen so far.

Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#12

Post by phkahler »

This debate seems like a manifestation of a problem with governments: They think they can legislate anything they want. Need access to some communications - green light for massive data collection. Some of it is encrypted - just mandate a back door. School shooting - new gun laws. Any problem activity - we'll just make it illegal. Something not getting done - we'll just mandate someone take care of it. They really don't know how to stay at a higher level, it's all micromanagement. Some things are just not possible, but they'll try to make it so with the stroke of a pen.

Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#13

Post by venomsnake »

conover wrote: post #4

Despite the political element, there is a poor history of keeping these kind of keys/methods secret. See the AACS encryption fiasco, the cable card hacking wars over the last decade, Clipper chip mentioned in the article, etc.

I am also not sure that I want to entrust the keys to the internet to the same government that kept its nukes with launch codes of "00000000"

Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#14

Post by tremon »

beedogs wrote: post #9

The way I see it, law enforcement has had it far too easy for far too long. The Snowden revalations finally turned over all the rocks and people saw that they have been grossly overstepping both ethical and legal boundaries, and encryption is finally getting the mindshare it desperately needs. So to their petulant cries of being unable to read our communications anymore, I say: fuck 'em. Time to earn your keep now, b…

I have a lot of trouble viewing anything involving the NSA as "law enforcement". Like the CIA, aren't they specifically created to subvert the law in other countries and not operate in their own jurisdiction?

Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#15

Post by vezzy-fnord »

phkahler wrote: post #12

This debate seems like a manifestation of a problem with governments: They think they can legislate anything they want. Need access to some communications - green light for massive data collection. Some of it is encrypted - just mandate a back door. School shooting - new gun laws. Any problem activity - we'll just make it illegal. Something not getting done - we'll just mandate someone take care of it. They really do…

Not just with governments, but people's whims in general.

To quote G.K. Chesterton [1]:

   And then, last but the reverse of least, there plunged in
   all the people who think they can solve a problem they
   cannot understand by abolishing everything that has 
   contributed to it. We all know these people. If a barber
   has cut his customer's throat because the girl has 
   changed her partner for a dance or donkey ride on 
   Hampstead Heath, there are always people to protest
   against the mere institutions that led up to it. This 
   would not have happened if barbers were abolished, or if
   cutlery were abolished, or if the objection felt by
   girls to imperfectly grown beards were abolished, or if 
   the girls were abolished, or if heaths and open spaces
   were abolished, or if dancing were abolished, or if
   donkeys were abolished. But donkeys, I fear, will never
   be abolished.
[1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Flying_Inn/Chapter_IX

Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#16

Post by gonzo41 »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #5

Being HN I'm sure many of us have dreams about future computers that are seamless extensions of our bodies, doing more than we could ever imagine with a phone or a watch. Do we also have nightmares about a hacker stealing a government's back door key and giving us a heart attack in our sleep?

Have you seen Ghost in the Shell? I'm don't more integrated computers are the answer.

But on the encryption front, the more the better. If everyone adds complexity then 'they' have to discriminate more. Which is good for everyone.

Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#17

Post by Someone1234 »

jebblue wrote: post #11
gnu8 wrote: post #2

The headline belies the utter ridiculousness of the idea. Why would the United States and United Kingdom be singled out to have backdoor access to all communications? To hang onto the tattered remnants of their empires while keeping their own people in line despite their declining political legitimacy.

The united States isn't an empire, that's what it was formed to get away from. It's a collection of people, living in different communities called states that strive to stay united to form a more perfect union. It isn't a perfect experiment because people are not perfect but it's the best effort history has seen so far.

Tell that to the countries the US keeps invading. At the very least Grenada, Iraq (2003), and Panama. But the list is far longer and more complicated (and stretches back fifty years or more).

Nobody would call the US an "empire" if all it did was keep in its own territory and stay out of other country's internal affairs. Nobody calls Canada an empire for example. But the US keeps deciding to outright attack other countries or uses the CIA to subvert internal politics (and sometimes to overthrow democratically elected governments e.g. Iran).

The US deserves to be accused of having imperial intent, even if just based on their interest in other country's oil.

Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#18

Post by tinkerrr »

jebblue wrote: post #11
gnu8 wrote: post #2

The headline belies the utter ridiculousness of the idea. Why would the United States and United Kingdom be singled out to have backdoor access to all communications? To hang onto the tattered remnants of their empires while keeping their own people in line despite their declining political legitimacy.

The united States isn't an empire, that's what it was formed to get away from. It's a collection of people, living in different communities called states that strive to stay united to form a more perfect union. It isn't a perfect experiment because people are not perfect but it's the best effort history has seen so far.

Are you sure about that? http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/wadd...

http://www.theweeklings.com/wp-content/uploads/US-Military-B...

Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#19

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

gonzo41 wrote: post #16
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #5

Being HN I'm sure many of us have dreams about future computers that are seamless extensions of our bodies, doing more than we could ever imagine with a phone or a watch. Do we also have nightmares about a hacker stealing a government's back door key and giving us a heart attack in our sleep?

Have you seen Ghost in the Shell? I'm don't more integrated computers are the answer. But on the encryption front, the more the better. If everyone adds complexity then 'they' have to discriminate more. Which is good for everyone.

I have seen Ghost in the Shell, although I'm not clear at what you're getting at.

Re: Code Specialists Oppose U.S. and British Access to Encrypted Communication

#20

Post by a3n »

> “Such access will open doors through which criminals and malicious nation-states can attack the very individuals law enforcement seeks to defend,”

And there's the nut. The concern of law enforcement is not protection of citizens, it's ease of prosecution and resume building.

No one can claim credit for a general environment of ongoing secure communication, but cops and prosecutors can definitely claim credit for specific arrests and prosecutions, even if that general security environment is all but destroyed.

In fact, the more breaches, the more crimes, the more cops and prosecutors are needed. Job protection.

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