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Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

ruarai.github.io

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Re: Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

#61
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the traditional model of academic publishing that was driven by the limited communication and collaboration ability of the time. A study like the one you describe would be done by multiple co-authors (I don't think I've written an image processing paper that doesn't have at least three people as authors, all of whom actually contributed to the work one way or another.) Furthermore, the traditional paper would…

> What this model of publication does not (yet) have is a reputation mechanism, but it isn't clear it needs one, because you can see the results (and the code) for yourself. As such, I think the author has not only done something interesting in the image compression space, they are pointing the way on the future of scientific publication. The original post is certainly interesting, but that doesn't mean it extends ou…

Maybe OP or someone else will take the initiative to add that and other reference material to the project's wiki.

Re: Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

#62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

W.r.t. running the edge detection twice. Is there a name for this operation? Finding points that are near an edge but not on the edge?

The Laplacian.

Weird. I hadn't made the connection with Physics there. I suppose it is a general mathematical operator.

Thanks!

Re: Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

#63

Very impressive! How might the final rendering look if it used some of the standard triangle shading techniques? Treat the sample points as coordinates in a mesh, assign colors to those coordinates based on what you sampled, then interpolate colors for the points between those coordinates using something like Gouraud or Phong shading (without the lighting). That might produce a satisfying result with fewer samples. I…

Phong is a lighting model. What you are talking about is barycentric interpolation, which is what this is doing. There are already image resizing algorithms that use triangulation (and something called DDE - data dependent interpolation) so the answer to your question is yes it is absolutely a valid idea.

"Phong" refers to two distinct but related things: The Phong reflection model (Ambient + Diffuse + Specular) and Phong shading (normal vector interpolation).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_reflection_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading

Re: Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

#64
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Laplacian.

Weird. I hadn't made the connection with Physics there. I suppose it is a general mathematical operator. Thanks!

Yes, it's not exactly equivalent here but it's pretty close. Basically, Sobel kernels are analogous to the 1st derivative and the Laplacian is analogous to the 2nd. You'll also often see the Laplacian combined with a Gaussian (the "LoG" operator) for pre-smoothing since it tends to be particularly sensitive to any noise.

Re: Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

#65

Hmmm... I wonder if there's potential to use this concept for video. Not this implementation, naturally, but the concept. I'm a little too sleep deprived to think through this entirely, but just off the top of my head, it seems like over the course of a few frames that an edge in motion would wind up as a series of triangles where one of the points remains static while the other two shift away from it -- in other wor…

There's been some work on encoding video with triangles. See "Video Compression Using Data-Dependent Triangulations" (http://www-home.htwg-konstanz.de/~umlauf/Papers/cgv08.pdf) for example.

Re: Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

#66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. I hadn't made the connection with Physics there. I suppose it is a general mathematical operator. Thanks!

Yes, it's not exactly equivalent here but it's pretty close. Basically, Sobel kernels are analogous to the 1st derivative and the Laplacian is analogous to the 2nd. You'll also often see the Laplacian combined with a Gaussian (the "LoG" operator) for pre-smoothing since it tends to be particularly sensitive to any noise.

Being a second derivative, I suppose it would be.

So does that mean that there are other kernels that approximate derivatives "better"? Like with finite differences?

Re: Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

#67
post #17
post #14

Some more explanation about barycentric coordinate would be appreciated.

Barycentric coordinates are "weights" (u, v, w) that determine a point P on a triangle (A, B, C) by weighting the triangle corner points. You can calculate the cartesian coordinates of P = u * A + v * B + w * C. Since the weights u+v+w = 1 you actually don't need all three: u = 1-v-w, so P = (1-v-w) * A + v * B + w * C = A + v * (B - A) + w * (C - A).

Gotcha. That makes sense.

Re: Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

#68
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phong is a lighting model. What you are talking about is barycentric interpolation, which is what this is doing. There are already image resizing algorithms that use triangulation (and something called DDE - data dependent interpolation) so the answer to your question is yes it is absolutely a valid idea.

"Phong" refers to two distinct but related things: The Phong reflection model (Ambient + Diffuse + Specular) and Phong shading (normal vector interpolation). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_reflection_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading

Correct (I over simplified). Neither really applies here because the interpolation is based on barycentric coordinates, which is the Phong part that was probably being referred to.

Re: Show HN: Trigrad, a novel image compression with interesting results

#69
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the author no harm, nor want to talk bad about his work. His work is very cool and I like the amount of information that he gives. Yet, this is far from comparable to academic work. I am inclined to say that you mixed up the sides in your statement, IMHO. Academic work would have explained the benefit of the algorithm. It would have presented it with a side by side comparison with common algorithms and explain…

This is the traditional model of academic publishing that was driven by the limited communication and collaboration ability of the time. A study like the one you describe would be done by multiple co-authors (I don't think I've written an image processing paper that doesn't have at least three people as authors, all of whom actually contributed to the work one way or another.) Furthermore, the traditional paper would…

I think there has been a misunderstanding. I never meant to say there is no place for the work of the author. I merely wanted to say that saying academic work produces nothing, as the reaction I replied to stated, is shortsighted.

I completely agree with the rest of your comment. Depending on audience you might prefer the one approach over the other. A person searching for an algorithm to use in a (large) production environment will most likely search for traditional publications (as you called it), while research might search for the other type described.

That leaves a discussion if you can talk of academic publications missing all the contents required for a publication. ;). I would like to call that academic work, and the other academic publications.

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