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Step one is admitting you have a problem

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21–30 of 71 posts

Re: Step one is admitting you have a problem

#22
post #16
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enjoying yourself such that you lose track of time -- when it happens all the time -- is a bad thing. Imagine yourself saying the same thing about anything else you can get addicted to. "I watch 14 hours of television a day because I genuinely just enjoy it." "I drink 14 bottles of beer a day because I genuinely just enjoy it."

Yes and no. What if you were so excited about painting that you spent 16 hours a day painting. You produce the greatest masterpieces man has ever seen, you change the world of art forever... but yeah, you're an addict. So what? What's so bad about being addicted to something worthwhile? It's pretty usual to hear about musicians who will spend 20 hours a day in the studio getting their songs just right. Artists of all…

you spent 16 hours a day painting. You produce the greatest masterpieces man has ever seen...

The cultural bias is staring at us right here: You've implicitly assumed that working 16 hours per day is the way to produce great work. Not necessarily true.

There are, of course, artists who do their work in intense sleepless binges, because when the spirit moves them they forget everything else, even food and sleep. There are also artists who can't work unless they're drunk or stoned. But consider the possibility that this is not the source of their power. This is a handicap that they must overcome.

I know it's difficult to imagine a twenty-year-old version of Steve Wozniak that was even more productive. But everything we know about sleep suggests that if Steve had been able to convince himself to get more rest in the middle of his legendary weekend-long hacking binges, he would indeed have been even more productive. Woz got through that, of course, because he had the brain cycles to waste.

As for this:

Artists of all types do the whole obsessive addiction thing all the time, but we don't point at them and say "hey, you better chill out, don't worry about trying to achieve Artistic Nirvana...

No, we don't, but that's a flaw in our culture. Are you suggesting that it would have been a bad idea to try and get, say, Ramanujan to take some time out to rest and feed himself, rather than letting him remain so addicted to short-term mathematical highs that he let his health decline and died at an early age?

Our romantic artistic culture idolizes burnouts and addicts: Kurt Cobain, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Marilyn Monroe, Elvis. This leads to the illusion that acting like a burnout and acting like an artist are aspects of the same thing. But being a great artist is more about persistence than intensity. It is actually far better for your development as a musician, for example, to practice a few hours a day for a long series of days than to try to pack more practice into each day. Your mind needs rest to assimilate and organize what it learns.

Another point: Many of the musicians who spend 20 hours a day in the studio do so for economic reasons. Every hour of studio time costs money, lots of money, and getting set up in the studio takes hours and hours of work, so once you get set up you have to use the studio as intensely as possible before you have to break down the instruments and pack them up. It makes one wonder how much of the I-don't-need-sleep-I'm-a-superhacker culture derives from the days when hacking took place in night-long binges because the computer's time was cheaper late at night. That was a rational reason to stay up all night. But now computers are cheaper than furniture and there's no reason for a tech worker not to get some sleep. You'll think better.

Re: Step one is admitting you have a problem

#23
post #16
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enjoying yourself such that you lose track of time -- when it happens all the time -- is a bad thing. Imagine yourself saying the same thing about anything else you can get addicted to. "I watch 14 hours of television a day because I genuinely just enjoy it." "I drink 14 bottles of beer a day because I genuinely just enjoy it."

Yes and no. What if you were so excited about painting that you spent 16 hours a day painting. You produce the greatest masterpieces man has ever seen, you change the world of art forever... but yeah, you're an addict. So what? What's so bad about being addicted to something worthwhile? It's pretty usual to hear about musicians who will spend 20 hours a day in the studio getting their songs just right. Artists of all…

To improve on your distinction, I would say painting, programming, building, writing, etc... all produce that sense of fulfillment from within; even if you go to excessive lengths with it.

Psycho-active drugs do not. They provide an external stimulus to those receptors in the body that make you feel like you are being fulfilled. Over time, those receptors get burnt out and the spurious feeling of fulfillment can only be maintained with the substance.

Narcotics are and are not a big deal; I dabbled with them for a short period of time and can safely say that there are far more users than many people think exists. Users that go to work everyday, have kids, and generally seem to be square. They are a big deal in the sense that you are replacing self-empowered fulfillment with a drug; they aren't a big deal in the sense that everything in our environment produces altered states of consciousness. Food (especially), a beautiful sunset, the aroma of baking bread, &c...

My rule of thumb: if it makes you feel genuinely good, then do it! Psycho-active drugs have never made me feel genuinely good; to some people though, it may. Writing, programming, hiking, swimming, sailing, dancing, &c... have all been things that make me feel genuinely good.

Re: Step one is admitting you have a problem

#24

advice from an old mentor... Take care of: 1 - Your health 2 - Your family / relationship with God 3 - Your work The advice was given to me at a time when I was working 100 hour weeks. I was told that even a 40 hour work week is unacceptable if I don't take care of items 1 and 2 ahead of my work. As with most quality advice, it took years to sink in.

Your mentor really put your health above your relationship with God? I take it Job went about things the wrong way?

Re: Step one is admitting you have a problem

#26
If you look at successful people - no matter if it's in business, sports of mathematics then one thing they have in common is hard and challenging work over longer periods of time. You won't get good at golf, programming or business by not practicing it a lot - and others that work harder than you will outperform you at some point, no matter what your initial talents are.

Is hard work an addiction? It probably is, but not like a cocaine addiction, but more like a become-good-at-golf addiction.

Hard work and becoming really good at something requires sacrifices, no matter if it's for sports or startups. And becoming really good at something isn't for everyone.

I want to become really good at what I do, I love my work and I spend a lot of time "working" (or at least practicing). I don't think hard work is a problem and I don't think DHH should tell us that it's a problem. We all have different values in life and we have different ways of achieving success. I mostly work hard because I enjoy it and because I want to become better.

Re: Step one is admitting you have a problem

#27
post #16
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enjoying yourself such that you lose track of time -- when it happens all the time -- is a bad thing. Imagine yourself saying the same thing about anything else you can get addicted to. "I watch 14 hours of television a day because I genuinely just enjoy it." "I drink 14 bottles of beer a day because I genuinely just enjoy it."

Yes and no. What if you were so excited about painting that you spent 16 hours a day painting. You produce the greatest masterpieces man has ever seen, you change the world of art forever... but yeah, you're an addict. So what? What's so bad about being addicted to something worthwhile? It's pretty usual to hear about musicians who will spend 20 hours a day in the studio getting their songs just right. Artists of all…

Sure. You're right. Unless you also want to have a social life, or fulfilling relationships with people. I won't say that it can't be done, or that it can't be done to some degree, but it's much harder to sustain other parts of your life if you're spending so much time on one thing.

If you're spending 16 hours a day painting, then you might change the world of art. If you're spending 16 hours a day working on your business, you might change the world of business. Or at least your business. But you sure as hell aren't going to have a happy spouse. You're going to lose connections to friends.

This is especially relevant at this time of year. As any Christmas movie will tell you, thinking only of yourself and your work is not going to make you fulfilled.

Re: Step one is admitting you have a problem

#28
post #26

If you look at successful people - no matter if it's in business, sports of mathematics then one thing they have in common is hard and challenging work over longer periods of time. You won't get good at golf, programming or business by not practicing it a lot - and others that work harder than you will outperform you at some point, no matter what your initial talents are. Is hard work an addiction? It probably is, bu…

Hard work != addiction to work.

Re: Step one is admitting you have a problem

#29
post #26

If you look at successful people - no matter if it's in business, sports of mathematics then one thing they have in common is hard and challenging work over longer periods of time. You won't get good at golf, programming or business by not practicing it a lot - and others that work harder than you will outperform you at some point, no matter what your initial talents are. Is hard work an addiction? It probably is, bu…

With sports, one of the critical aspects of success is adequate sleep and nutrition (and exercise, obviously).

At the very least, sacrificing sleep, nutrition and exercise for "work" is obviously counter-productive, regardless of your personal values.

Re: Step one is admitting you have a problem

#30
post #24

advice from an old mentor... Take care of: 1 - Your health 2 - Your family / relationship with God 3 - Your work The advice was given to me at a time when I was working 100 hour weeks. I was told that even a 40 hour work week is unacceptable if I don't take care of items 1 and 2 ahead of my work. As with most quality advice, it took years to sink in.

Your mentor really put your health above your relationship with God? I take it Job went about things the wrong way?

The ordering of health/family/God is certainly debatable. This was his ordering and I don't always do it that way, but the point that your work can't be sustainable or offer your life much value without the right priorities is the key. I've been fortunate to have had quite a few great mentors in my life.
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