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After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

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Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#121
post #56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity what are some of the things wrong with it?

This page doesn't like the film, and lists some mistakes, but also lists some of the accurate bits. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psychologist-the-movies...

The only real "issue" that article seems to take with the movies was that (A) it used a term that doesn't exist to describe a condition that does have an actual name and (B) it was a cheesy romcom. But I mean, do you really expect any Adam Sandler movie to get to the real grit of living with a terrible disease?

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#122
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Midaz can be used as premedication before induction of general anesthesia, but it's not an induction agent itself. If you're getting general (as opposed to "twilight") anesthesia, once you're induced, you should be unconscious (to the best of our ability to understand consciousness). I'm medicine, not anesthesia, so I don't use these agents all day and therefore referred to cardioversion which is more in my domain. C…

I am noting with interest and a small amount of alarm the abruptness with which you've ejected yourself from this thread after my suggestion that all of anesthesia is a huge scam. :)

Offering tptacek a dose of midaz: There is no thread.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#123
post #104
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an anasthetic carries some risk. How much? How many people per million suffer the adverse outcome you fear? Now compare that to the risk of day to day life. How much has the risk increased? There's a bunch of stuff you do that you don't need to do that carries more risk than anaesthetic. It's fine for you to chose your medical care. You might want to investigate an "advance health care directive". Having one s…

>There's a bunch of stuff you do that you don't need to do that carries more risk than anaesthetic. I don't have any evidence for this but I suspect that the majority of brain injuries in otherwise healthy people come from trauma due to accidents. If my suspicion is true then wearing a helmet all the time might be the most effective way to avoid brain injury.

Helmets protect your skull. They are not as effective at preventing brain injury.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#124
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of amnesiacs like midazolam in conjunction with unpleasant surgery has become common practice because it has been shown to significantly reduce the psychological trauma associated with surgical procedures and related changes in behavior as a result. You will still experience the trauma at the time whether you remember it or not, but the experience is not persistently encoded into your brain. This is important…

And that makes intuitive sense. I'm still left with the question: is the experience of surgery really that bad?

I can give you some idea. I've had two surgical procedures where something like midazolam was strongly recommend, but opted out for one of them. The one I opted out of was a four hour procedure sawing on bone and soft tissue.

For the procedure on midazolam, I have virtually no recollection of the procedure except for about a minute in the middle where it apparently wore off. It was a completely neutral experience.

For the other procedure, it was extremely unpleasant for two reasons but I got through it like a stoic. First, they had trouble keeping up with the local anesthetic, too many nerves involved, so there was quite a bit of transient pain and it got sloppier over the length of the procedure as the doc got tired. Second, even when you can't feel pain, you can still feel them tearing up your tissues and rearranging your parts, which is disconcerting if nothing else. Overall, I strongly recollect just how unpleasant and painful (even under anesthetic) that procedure was. I probably would not be able to tell you any of this if I was on amnesiacs because I would not remember.

It is really about where your thresholds are. Like you, I find the loss of memory on the amnesiacs disturbing and the alternative, anecdotally, was far more unpleasant than I think some people imagine. The experience that I remember doesn't bother me that much because that is my nature but I can't deny that I have vivid memories of it. I can easily imagine that many people would prefer to not have those memories. That said, I would likely elect to forego an amnesiac again if I thought it would inconvenience me (i.e. by making you useless for several hours). I can deal with the experience.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#125
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll say yes. For example, sometimes we have to run electrical current through someone's chest to correct an arrhythmia. Depending on the urgency, we will give a medication such as midazolam. Ideally you want the sedation to have taken effect, but you don't always have the time to wait for that before your hand is forced and you have to cardiovert. The amnestic properties will help reduce some of the traumatic memori…

Sure. That makes sense. You gave me enough keywords with that comment to look up electrical cardioversion and pain, and so now there's something new that I'm scared of (kale for dinner tonight!) (thanks!). But that's actually something different than what I'm asking. I have no trouble understanding why I wouldn't want to remember a pain "similar to that of surgical incision". Similarly: I wouldn't want to remember an…

I asked an anesthesiologist this question and am transcribing from memory (hehe), so I may have screwed some things up.

The answer to your question in is no, you aren't suffering enduring horrible pain while under general anesthesia. That doesn't mean you won't experience things you would rather not remember. Some examples: 1) patient may experience burning sensation from propofol (induction agent) entering the body 2) patient may see something disturbing before general has kicked in (e.g. a big saw before an orthopedic procedure) 3) in certain cases (e.g. emergencies) or due to human error, patient may not be fully under pre-surgery, e.g. patient may remember breathing tube being inserted.

The high level answer for why you are given midazolam (at least in the US) is because anesthesia is a "patient satisfaction" service and giving it increases patient satisfaction.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#126
post #74
post #38

Damaging my mind is my biggest fear. I had a simple surgery a year ago(shoulder arthroscopy), and I specifically said that I don't agree to general anesthesia or any kind of sedatives, because even a small probability of a small brain damage isn't worth it for me. Doctors tried to push me into accepting the general anesthesia, saying that it's the only option(and that we lose brain cells every day really, so who care…

I got tinnitus a week after a dental procedure with anesthesia. Don't know how to live with it, to be honest. Your fear is anything but irrational.

Hey, don't worry about it. Tinnitus fucking sucks, but over time you get used to it. It's hard to believe at the beginning, but gradually it bothers you less and less. Eventually you can focus on whatever you are doing and not notice it anymore.

For now try not to freak out or get depressed about it, turn on air conditioner or running water to mask the noise.

Try taking ginko, try taking melatonin for sleep.

Listen to music or audiobooks when it's too annoying(not too loud to not cause any more damage).

Visit a doctor and get some advice from him. Go to a support forum or subreddit if it gets bad.

If you are lucky enough to be living in US - check out what trials you can enroll in. Some of them can probably help. People are workong on a cure and making some progress.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#127

In a talk that I attended, Steve Wozniak mentioned that he studied a lot of psychology when he returned to the university after leaving Apple. He thinks that he may have been the first person to have come up with idea that we lose our memories with our teeth, and that researchers later discovered a link between the loss of our early autobiographical memories and the loss of our baby teeth.

My Mom's got only three teeth left. Going by this theory, she should remember barely anything. But she does remember a lot.

He's talking about milk teeth, not adult teeth. There is no implication that teeth are related to memories, just that your milk teeth come out at around the same age that your memories are wiped.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#128
post #111
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's an interesting point, because apparently if the tape recorder never turns back on, you're just kinda stuck in time as the person you were. So it suggests at the least that the tape recorder aspect of consciousness, perhaps in the way it feeds back one's perception of oneself to oneself, is crucial in the sort of consciousness we humans see as critical to identity. Clearly though, this guy is still "conscio…

Sounds like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

It's sort of a weak version of a P-zombie. Presumably the lack of conscious awareness would still be observable using a sufficiently detailed brain scan if not anything else, as opposed to a "real" P-zombie where the presence of consciousness is assumed to be completely epiphenomenal.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, unlikely. I specifically remember being asked to count down from 10, going like 8 7 6 ... 5 wait I feel weird and sleepy. That is, my first thought after being woken up was the next number in sequence. It seems unlikely that would be the case if the time inbetween was spent thinking 'oh my god this hurts so much' rather than just blacked out.

Were you given a benzo specifically to erase your memory of the events? Because this thread is about the fact that many (maybe most) surgical patients are. (Let me clear, I'm being deliberately silly about all this. I do not think there is a huge anesthesia conspiracy. I am, at the same time, seriously skeeved out by having my memory deliberately tampered with.)

> Were you given a benzo specifically to erase your memory of the events?

I don't remember! :P

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#130
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

It's sort of a weak version of a P-zombie. Presumably the lack of conscious awareness would still be observable using a sufficiently detailed brain scan if not anything else, as opposed to a "real" P-zombie where the presence of consciousness is assumed to be completely epiphenomenal.

It's not that we're not aware, it's essentially that we may only be aware - aware of our thoughts once our subconscious thinks them, aware of our actions and their consequences once they're made.

The trick, seemingly is manipulating the focus of awareness to convince the subconscious decision-making apparatus to make different decisions, even though all we really have control of is our awareness.

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