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Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

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Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

#71

Post by wavefunction »

vacri wrote: post #52
jsprogrammer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's a very clear difference between a country that comes out of two world wars, with everything all but destroyed, including millions dead. Which allows us to provide a further distinction: the country who had everything destroyed was directly responsible for that destruction. Yet, the debt that they racked up because they tried to take over eurasia while killing and torturing millions in the process, was forgiv…

> I think there should be a distinction between a country that kills and tortures millions and one that does not. There isn't a major economy in the world that this does not describe. Perhaps not India. The "Race for Africa" was a low point for the UK and France, for example.

Of course India (or its historical antecedents) have killed millions, though it's been primarily other folks on the subcontinent. I agree with your point otherwise.

Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

#72

Post by latch »

aikah wrote: post #48
sgnelson wrote: post #21

This makes me lose respect for Piketty. There's a very clear difference between a country that comes out of two world wars, with everything all but destroyed, including millions dead. I'm sorry, no matter how bad 2008 was, it was no World War. His inability to grasp this just boggles the mind. There's a very big difference between war caused debt and economic caused debt (note that I'm basically making these two "deb…

who started World War II ? > There's a very big difference between war caused debt and economic caused debt not if you started the very war that put you in debt.

Your sibling posts pick much, much stronger arguments.

"This is not a peace. It is an armistice for twenty years"

Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

#73

Post by sgnelson »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #41
sgnelson wrote: post #21

This makes me lose respect for Piketty. There's a very clear difference between a country that comes out of two world wars, with everything all but destroyed, including millions dead. I'm sorry, no matter how bad 2008 was, it was no World War. His inability to grasp this just boggles the mind. There's a very big difference between war caused debt and economic caused debt (note that I'm basically making these two "deb…

>There's a very clear difference between a country that comes out of two world wars, with everything all but destroyed, including millions dead. Which allows us to provide a further distinction: the country who had everything destroyed was directly responsible for that destruction. Yet, the debt that they racked up because they tried to take over eurasia while killing and torturing millions in the process, was forgiv…

I'll put it this way.

World War I: Germany loses, is forced to pay not just debt, but reparations. Huge economic and political instability as a result leads to a new leadership which leads directly to World War II.

World War II: Germany loses, is split up, due to the Marshall plan (in part do to a fear of Communism, so not solely due to compassion), West Germany given millions of dollars to rebuild, a rather thriving democracy and economy is created as a result.

Which of these is the better option?

Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

#74

Post by woodpanel »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #41
sgnelson wrote: post #21

This makes me lose respect for Piketty. There's a very clear difference between a country that comes out of two world wars, with everything all but destroyed, including millions dead. I'm sorry, no matter how bad 2008 was, it was no World War. His inability to grasp this just boggles the mind. There's a very big difference between war caused debt and economic caused debt (note that I'm basically making these two "deb…

>There's a very clear difference between a country that comes out of two world wars, with everything all but destroyed, including millions dead. Which allows us to provide a further distinction: the country who had everything destroyed was directly responsible for that destruction. Yet, the debt that they racked up because they tried to take over eurasia while killing and torturing millions in the process, was forgiv…

Following your lead: Then let's start by assigning a value to each person killed in WWII and the moral righteousness (or lack thereof) leading to the person's death. Yes quite the humane and reasonable trait in a time of total destruction. Very helpful.

Your post actually prove's the other author's point: Your clear opinion of responsibility is shown and thus it would be clear to me, how you as a winner's negotiator in that time after WWII would have "accounted" that debt.

Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

#75

Post by tptacek »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #70
tptacek wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stats I can find suggest Greece ran a primary deficit pretty consistently starting in 2002 --- long before the crisis --- in fact, they appear to have run a primary deficit during the boom years that preceded the crisis.

A deficit isn't necessarily unsustainable over a period of economic growth. If growth and inflation outpace the cost of borrowing, it's worthwhile to borrow. Kind of like the US is doing right now.

That's a good point, but the obvious next Google search suggests that Greece's economic growth was unspectacular during the early 00s, and began lagging in '06.

Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

#76

Post by spikels »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #56
vacri wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there should be a distinction between a country that kills and tortures millions and one that does not. There isn't a major economy in the world that this does not describe. Perhaps not India. The "Race for Africa" was a low point for the UK and France, for example.

Please list one instance when the modern Greek state did as described.

Greek invasion of Turkey in 1919 was pretty ugly although the scale was different.

Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

#77

Post by Mikeb85 »

nostromo wrote: post #63
jsprogrammer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's a very clear difference between a country that comes out of two world wars, with everything all but destroyed, including millions dead. Which allows us to provide a further distinction: the country who had everything destroyed was directly responsible for that destruction. Yet, the debt that they racked up because they tried to take over eurasia while killing and torturing millions in the process, was forgiv…

I'd draw a distinction between debts incurred by a democratically elected government and otherwise. I also think reparations are fundamentally different than loans. Comparing war reparations to loans is blurring the lines to make a political point.

Think of it like this: when a country needs to 'borrow', they're selling bonds. An investment vehicle. If you buy bad bonds as a typical investor, no one bails you out - you lose your investment. That's how it should have gone for Greece. Their 'investors' should have lost during the crisis, like everyone else, instead the Euro governments bailed them out and created this prolonged mess...

Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

#78

Post by vacri »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #56
vacri wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there should be a distinction between a country that kills and tortures millions and one that does not. There isn't a major economy in the world that this does not describe. Perhaps not India. The "Race for Africa" was a low point for the UK and France, for example.

Please list one instance when the modern Greek state did as described.

Please list one resource which describes the modern Greek state as a 'major economy'.

Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”

#79

Post by njs12345 »

sgnelson wrote: post #21

This makes me lose respect for Piketty. There's a very clear difference between a country that comes out of two world wars, with everything all but destroyed, including millions dead. I'm sorry, no matter how bad 2008 was, it was no World War. His inability to grasp this just boggles the mind. There's a very big difference between war caused debt and economic caused debt (note that I'm basically making these two "deb…

The Greek economy has shrunk by a quarter over the course of the crisis. Not quite a smoking crater, but not exactly a trifle either, and not incomparable to the impact of a war, I'd say..
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