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After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

bbc.com

81–90 of 137 posts

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#81
Is it necessarily the anaesthesia or a hemorrhage? Have they considered removing the root canal? Sometimes removing the materials from a root canal has improved a patient's health significantly.

Certainly one could understand why the dental industry would avoid the meme "root canal = bad!", but in this case the patient has little to lose, his future being lost already.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#82
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a highly politicized/editorialized paper, though, with a clear opinion that really belong separate from a scientific paper. It counts every death that could have been prevented by perfect care, not only harm caused by treatment in otherwise safe individuals. For example, if someone with heart disease visits hospital and the hospital does not administer best known treatment protocol and the patient dies, that'…

I think pointing out the deaths caused by improper care are one of the few tools we have to correct the egregious errors that go uncorrected all the time in health care. For instance a family friend was told she had uterine cancer and was all set to start her doctor's protocol. But at the last minute wanted a second opinion from MD Anderson, the best cancer hospital in the world. After their team looked at her doctor…

What consequence should he face? Doctors are still people and can absolutely make stupid mistakes just like the rest of us. Any serious diagnosis should always lead to getting a second (or even third!) opinion.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#83
post #11

The doctors initially suspected that he’d reacted badly to the anaesthetic, causing a brain haemorrhage – yet they failed to find evidence of injury. So he was discharged with the mystery still hanging over him, and the family moved back to England, where he was referred to the office of Gerald Burgess, a clinical psychologist in Leicester. Scouring the medical literature, he found five similar cases of mysterious me…

Earlier this year I had a medical procedure and was given "twilight" anesthesia. I was explicitly told "you need to have your spouse or a friend here because we're going to give you instructions afterward and you probably won't remember it". And, sure enough, my memory was pretty much wiped for the hour or so after the event. Later that evening I had a conversation with my wife that went like this: "Um, did you help…

Your story (and others in the reply) sound a lot like experiences of people taking Ambien (Zolpidem) - sometime, they "wake up" in the middle of being awake, and more - sometimes, they do things (like eat, drive, email, etc.) without any recollection. Often, just as sharp as when they are really awake, but sometimes, very weirdly (people driving naked, stuff like that).

To me, that (and experiments of Gazanigga etc) indicate that Jaynes was onto something with the "bicameral mind" theory, as crazy as it sounds.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#84
post #77
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I've had that. Sitting in a hospital bed after my appendectomy: "Hey, I'm awake! That was easy." "You've been awake for two hours." "...Oh. Huh."

Yeah, I've had that also. Very strange, like how does one recognize that one has "woken up" from being already awake? It's like, oh, the tape recorder turned back on. Maybe we're just the tape recorder?

Yes, it's a popular view nowadays among psychologists and cognitive scientists that the conscious self is just a sort of a senior manager that receives reports and thinks he's in charge while in fact his subordinates work just fine even when he's temporarily not available at all.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Are mistakes in medicine responsible for cardiovascular disease, infectious diseases, or cancer? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_causes_of_death

Clicking through your link gets some stats that agree with them [1], based on this paper [2] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventable_causes_of_death#Ac... 2. http://journals.lww.com/journalpatientsafety/Fulltext/2013/0...

Those are preventable causes of death, not all causes of death.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#86
Oliver Sacks, in his wonderful essay collection "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat" [1], describes a similar case of a soldier, "Jimmy G.", who lost his ability to form memories after being wounded in 1945. Every half an hour or so his memory resets, and so 20 or 30 years later he still thinks that he's an 18 year-old man who just got wounded in the war. There's a particularly poignant moment in the story where his brother comes to visit the man in hospital in the 1970s, and how Jimmy is puzzled why his brother looks so old.

Another well-known case of retrograde amnesia is Clive Wearing, a British pianist who was the subject of a BBC documentary, "Man Without a Memory" [2]. I recommend watching the clip. He describes his "resets" rather terrifyingly as slowly emerging from a sleepless coma. Whenever he sees his wife after such a reset, he leaps up to greet her as if they have been apart for a long time, and his evident happiness and inability to recognize his situation is heartbreaking. (His wife, unbeknownst to him, of course, has since divorced him, which only adds to the poignancy of the scene.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Mistook_His_Wife_f...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwigmktix2Y

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#87
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of amnesiacs like midazolam in conjunction with unpleasant surgery has become common practice because it has been shown to significantly reduce the psychological trauma associated with surgical procedures and related changes in behavior as a result. You will still experience the trauma at the time whether you remember it or not, but the experience is not persistently encoded into your brain. This is important…

And that makes intuitive sense. I'm still left with the question: is the experience of surgery really that bad?

I'll say yes. For example, sometimes we have to run electrical current through someone's chest to correct an arrhythmia. Depending on the urgency, we will give a medication such as midazolam. Ideally you want the sedation to have taken effect, but you don't always have the time to wait for that before your hand is forced and you have to cardiovert. The amnestic properties will help reduce some of the traumatic memories.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#88
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I've had that. Sitting in a hospital bed after my appendectomy: "Hey, I'm awake! That was easy." "You've been awake for two hours." "...Oh. Huh."

After my first knee surgery, I regained consciousness midway through speaking a sentence to my mother. I was literally listening to words coming out of my mouth and had no idea where I was, who I was, or what I was talking about. My very next sentence was a panicked question to my mother trying to figure out those things. Turned out I had 'been awake and having cohesive conversation' with her for over an hour. I stil…

I read this book "The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World" and based on that I would say your left hemisphere were active when right one was suppressed for some time. I can't recommend this book highly enough - it's very comprehensive and it give you an opportunity to look at the world from a different perspective

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#89
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I've had that. Sitting in a hospital bed after my appendectomy: "Hey, I'm awake! That was easy." "You've been awake for two hours." "...Oh. Huh."

After my first knee surgery, I regained consciousness midway through speaking a sentence to my mother. I was literally listening to words coming out of my mouth and had no idea where I was, who I was, or what I was talking about. My very next sentence was a panicked question to my mother trying to figure out those things. Turned out I had 'been awake and having cohesive conversation' with her for over an hour. I stil…

I read this book "The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World" and based on that I would say your left hemisphere were active when right one was suppressed for some time. I can't recommend this book highly enough - it's very comprehensive and it give you an opportunity to look at the world from a different perspective

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#90
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that anesthesiologists apparently deliberately induce amnesia with benzos scares the shit out of me, much more so than full general anesthesia does (which seems backwards, right, because general anesthesia is actually dangerous). Why do they want me not to remember anything? Is it that horrible?

The use of amnesiacs like midazolam in conjunction with unpleasant surgery has become common practice because it has been shown to significantly reduce the psychological trauma associated with surgical procedures and related changes in behavior as a result. You will still experience the trauma at the time whether you remember it or not, but the experience is not persistently encoded into your brain. This is important…

Can you talk about the use of such meds in ITUs?

As I understand it there's an increased risk of PTSD if people are chemically restrained, which is why some ITUs (but not in England) use physical restraints when needed.

This is a different use case from surgery, where these meds are useful.

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