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After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

bbc.com

61–70 of 137 posts

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#61
post #58

A few comments in this thread mention "genera anaesthesia side effects" and long-term problems. I have never heard of this and a quick wikipedia/google search is not bringing up good source on the topic. Is this substantiated or another "vaccines cause autism" kind of thing?

There was recent news on the detrimental effects of general anesthesia has on the very young and old. Apparently it can be neurotoxic but healthy adults don't seem to have long lasting problems.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#62
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they should be considered proportionally to their probability times severity, and in this case, the probability is small enough to be a rounding error, so you really should worry about other things first, like getting killed when driving to the dentist's.

According to [1], medical errors are actually the third leading cause of death in the United States, so it's hardly a small probability. 1. http://www.forbes.com/sites/leahbinder/2013/09/23/stunning-n...

You should count only those medical errors which are relevant to your visit. A dentist probably won't accidentally damage your heart with a scalpel.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#63
post #58

A few comments in this thread mention "genera anaesthesia side effects" and long-term problems. I have never heard of this and a quick wikipedia/google search is not bringing up good source on the topic. Is this substantiated or another "vaccines cause autism" kind of thing?

It seems possible, due to what is used for general anesthesia. However, the person in the story was not given general anesthesia, only a local anesthetic.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#64
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He says in his autobiography that he was in a plane crash. That was the reason for leaving apple. He suffered from memory loss, so probably that is the reason for his interest in psychology. From wiki: "Wozniak sustained severe face and head injuries, including losing a tooth, and also suffered for five weeks after the crash from anterograde amnesia, the inability to create new memories. He had no memory of the crash…

Was that in Scotts Valley? Ive flown over that strip (as a passenger). the neighbors forced it to close, the strip is still there but there are big red Xs painted all over it. I expect its intended for use in emergencies. I understand he didnt set the trim, which adjusts the balance of the plane for the distribution of passenger weight.

Yes, Woz's crash was at the Santa Cruz Skypark airport in Scotts Valley. He was flying his V-tail Bonanza, a notoriously tricky airplane to fly:

http://www.cultofmac.com/275742/wonderful-rides-steve-woznia...

I used to love flying into Scotts Valley back in the '70s and '80s. It had a great picnic spot next to the field, and a scary approach when the landing direction was toward the southeast: The base leg (last turn before final approach) took you right toward a big tree-covered hill and you had to scoot around it a bit to avoid the trees.

Most of the runway is long gone, with houses at the north end and a park in the middle. There is a bit of the old strip left at the south end - but it would have to be a real emergency to even consider trying to land on it.

You can see the old airport in Google Earth if you use View/Historical Imagery and go all the way back to 10/1991. The south end of the runway is near Mt Hermon Road and Kings Village Road in Scotts Valley.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#65
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier this year I had a medical procedure and was given "twilight" anesthesia. I was explicitly told "you need to have your spouse or a friend here because we're going to give you instructions afterward and you probably won't remember it". And, sure enough, my memory was pretty much wiped for the hour or so after the event. Later that evening I had a conversation with my wife that went like this: "Um, did you help…

Yep, I've had that. Sitting in a hospital bed after my appendectomy: "Hey, I'm awake! That was easy." "You've been awake for two hours." "...Oh. Huh."

After my first knee surgery, I regained consciousness midway through speaking a sentence to my mother. I was literally listening to words coming out of my mouth and had no idea where I was, who I was, or what I was talking about. My very next sentence was a panicked question to my mother trying to figure out those things. Turned out I had 'been awake and having cohesive conversation' with her for over an hour. I still have no memory of that conversation.

As I was being prepped for my third knee surgery, my doctor asked if I had any problems with anesthesia. I told him about the memory loss after my first surgery. My friends who were accompanying me, and had been at my second knee surgery, started mumbling "um, huh, well, oh, actually". It turns out that after my second knee surgery, when the surgeon was giving me a summary of how the surgery went, he told me he botched up my knee, and I proceeded to make very coherent and precisely detailed threats against his life. (The threats were bad enough that the surgeon considered bringing security into the recovery area and restraining me. In the end, my friends, including a combat vet, convinced the doctor that I'm not actually a violent person and agreed to restrain me if I actually became violent.) Again, I have absolutely no memory of this!

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#66
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seizures in which I lose as much as a month of memory. The first one that I know about I suddenly found myself driving a car as if the universe sprang into existence that very instant. After a while I decided that I dont have month long seizures rather I have brief seizures in which I lose a month of memory. For this and other reasons I am concerned I have a brain tumour. That would totally suck.

Two concerns: - You should definitely have imaging done to see if you can identify a cause. - If you have seizures, you should definitely NOT be driving a car, for your safety and the safety of everyone around you Please get this checked out immediately...

You're absolutely right, but there's one problem: it's hard to get in for an immediate checkup and there's a good chance he'll forget about scheduling one.

Instead, he should tell a family member or close friend right away. Then they can help him make the proper medical appointments, etc.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#67
post #11

The doctors initially suspected that he’d reacted badly to the anaesthetic, causing a brain haemorrhage – yet they failed to find evidence of injury. So he was discharged with the mystery still hanging over him, and the family moved back to England, where he was referred to the office of Gerald Burgess, a clinical psychologist in Leicester. Scouring the medical literature, he found five similar cases of mysterious me…

>That doesn't prove that the anaesthetic isn't the root cause. The article title sounds link-baity.

Agreed, and psychogenic causation seems more likely (see my comment at the previous discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9810025).

This seems to be yet another case of HN users upvoting dubious link-bait scientific press-releases. This particular one has been posted 3 times this week.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#68
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier this year I had a medical procedure and was given "twilight" anesthesia. I was explicitly told "you need to have your spouse or a friend here because we're going to give you instructions afterward and you probably won't remember it". And, sure enough, my memory was pretty much wiped for the hour or so after the event. Later that evening I had a conversation with my wife that went like this: "Um, did you help…

The fact that anesthesiologists apparently deliberately induce amnesia with benzos scares the shit out of me, much more so than full general anesthesia does (which seems backwards, right, because general anesthesia is actually dangerous). Why do they want me not to remember anything? Is it that horrible?

The use of amnesiacs like midazolam in conjunction with unpleasant surgery has become common practice because it has been shown to significantly reduce the psychological trauma associated with surgical procedures and related changes in behavior as a result. You will still experience the trauma at the time whether you remember it or not, but the experience is not persistently encoded into your brain.

This is important because the psychological trauma of a surgical procedure will often cause people to avoid future procedures even when procedures are medically advisable. These drugs temporarily prevent strongly negative experiences from becoming a part of who you are mentally, subconscious or otherwise.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#69
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that anesthesiologists apparently deliberately induce amnesia with benzos scares the shit out of me, much more so than full general anesthesia does (which seems backwards, right, because general anesthesia is actually dangerous). Why do they want me not to remember anything? Is it that horrible?

The use of amnesiacs like midazolam in conjunction with unpleasant surgery has become common practice because it has been shown to significantly reduce the psychological trauma associated with surgical procedures and related changes in behavior as a result. You will still experience the trauma at the time whether you remember it or not, but the experience is not persistently encoded into your brain. This is important…

And that makes intuitive sense. I'm still left with the question: is the experience of surgery really that bad?

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#70
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that anesthesiologists apparently deliberately induce amnesia with benzos scares the shit out of me, much more so than full general anesthesia does (which seems backwards, right, because general anesthesia is actually dangerous). Why do they want me not to remember anything? Is it that horrible?

The use of amnesiacs like midazolam in conjunction with unpleasant surgery has become common practice because it has been shown to significantly reduce the psychological trauma associated with surgical procedures and related changes in behavior as a result. You will still experience the trauma at the time whether you remember it or not, but the experience is not persistently encoded into your brain. This is important…

A very close relative died after a procedure similar to what had happened to Joan Rivers. I've had that procedure (prior to the death) but now I am really scared to have it done again.
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