After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories • Hacker News Board

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#31

Post by MichaelCrawford » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #15

csomar wrote: post #11

The doctors initially suspected that he’d reacted badly to the anaesthetic, causing a brain haemorrhage – yet they failed to find evidence of injury. So he was discharged with the mystery still hanging over him, and the family moved back to England, where he was referred to the office of Gerald Burgess, a clinical psychologist in Leicester. Scouring the medical literature, he found five similar cases of mysterious me…

Earlier this year I had a medical procedure and was given "twilight" anesthesia. I was explicitly told "you need to have your spouse or a friend here because we're going to give you instructions afterward and you probably won't remember it". And, sure enough, my memory was pretty much wiped for the hour or so after the event. Later that evening I had a conversation with my wife that went like this: "Um, did you help…

I have seizures in which I lose as much as a month of memory. The first one that I know about I suddenly found myself driving a car as if the universe sprang into existence that very instant.

After a while I decided that I dont have month long seizures rather I have brief seizures in which I lose a month of memory.

For this and other reasons I am concerned I have a brain tumour. That would totally suck.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#32

Post by bite_victim » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

Any chance he suffered a profound trauma being under surgery? I imagine an utter fear of surgery and this could have been triggered by something really insignificant like a small tingling or just the thought of surgery, of a foreign element cutting deep in your tooth canal. That, amplified over and over (he might even have lost conscience if his jaw was being held in place by a device -- the doctor wouldn't have known it this way) could have given birth of some kind of mechanism of memory wipe, sort of like the one victims of rape or horrible accidents develop as a self defence mechanism to (not?) cope with what just happened. Only in this case it went terribly wrong.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#33

Post by kbutler » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 4:53 PM UTC

MichaelCrawford wrote: post #31

joezydeco wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier this year I had a medical procedure and was given "twilight" anesthesia. I was explicitly told "you need to have your spouse or a friend here because we're going to give you instructions afterward and you probably won't remember it". And, sure enough, my memory was pretty much wiped for the hour or so after the event. Later that evening I had a conversation with my wife that went like this: "Um, did you help…

I have seizures in which I lose as much as a month of memory. The first one that I know about I suddenly found myself driving a car as if the universe sprang into existence that very instant. After a while I decided that I dont have month long seizures rather I have brief seizures in which I lose a month of memory. For this and other reasons I am concerned I have a brain tumour. That would totally suck.

Two concerns:

- You should definitely have imaging done to see if you can identify a cause.

- If you have seizures, you should definitely NOT be driving a car, for your safety and the safety of everyone around you

Please get this checked out immediately...

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#34

Post by ams6110 » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

bitJericho wrote: post #13

cristianpascu wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only link-baity, but also blaming the doctor. Large percentage of the large percentage of people who won't read the article will move away with a inconsciouss (at least) fear of medical interventions.

Well yeah all medical interventions have can have side effects; they should be considered.

Anesthesia in particular. I've had some family members who were never quite the same after general anesthesia. Not as mentally sharp, more forgetful, etc.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#35

Post by spike021 » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #15

csomar wrote: post #11

The doctors initially suspected that he’d reacted badly to the anaesthetic, causing a brain haemorrhage – yet they failed to find evidence of injury. So he was discharged with the mystery still hanging over him, and the family moved back to England, where he was referred to the office of Gerald Burgess, a clinical psychologist in Leicester. Scouring the medical literature, he found five similar cases of mysterious me…

Earlier this year I had a medical procedure and was given "twilight" anesthesia. I was explicitly told "you need to have your spouse or a friend here because we're going to give you instructions afterward and you probably won't remember it". And, sure enough, my memory was pretty much wiped for the hour or so after the event. Later that evening I had a conversation with my wife that went like this: "Um, did you help…

I _believe_ I had the same anesthesia done when I went in for an endoscopy procedure roughly a year or so back. Supposedly the doctor had told me how often to take the prescription, I had sent iMessages/SMS' to people as well. Later that day I had nearly no recollection of any of it.

It's a very odd feeling for sure. Nothing serious and I doubt it caused any damage, but it was the first time I'd ever just had a blank set of time that I just couldn't answer for. I did have family nearby though.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#36

Post by harryjo » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 5:06 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #21

schrodinger wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Are mistakes in medicine responsible for cardiovascular disease, infectious diseases, or cancer? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_causes_of_death

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leahbinder/2013/09/23/stunning-n... "With these latest revelations, medical errors now claim the spot as the third leading cause of death in the United States, dwarfing auto accidents, diabetes and everything else besides Cancer and heart disease." Based on the findings of http://journals.lww.com/journalpatientsafety/Fulltext/2013/0...

That is a highly politicized/editorialized paper, though, with a clear opinion that really belong separate from a scientific paper.

It counts every death that could have been prevented by perfect care, not only harm caused by treatment in otherwise safe individuals.

For example, if someone with heart disease visits hospital and the hospital does not administer best known treatment protocol and the patient dies, that's a "medical error". But at root it is a heart-disease death. Same for cancer.

Some of the highlighted examples from the abstracts are extreme:

>>>

One example of a lethal error of communication between provider and patient occurred when cardiologists failed to warn their 19-year-old patient not to run. The patient had experienced syncope [fainting] while running, and 5 days of inpatient, diagnostic testing were inconclusive; however, his cardiologists knew he was not ready to return to running but failed to warn him against this risk. Having not been warned against running, he resumed running and died 3 weeks later while running.

The proper analysis is "what are your odds of survival when you choose to seek vs not seek care?"

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#37

Post by harryjo » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

Foy wrote: post #2

>he wakes up every morning believing he is still in Germany in 2005, waiting to visit the dentist. Without a record of new experiences, the passing of time means nothing to him. Today, he only knows that there is a problem because he and his wife have written detailed notes on his smartphone, in a file labelled “First thing – read this”. Literally 50 First Dates...

Memento

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#38

Post by rayalez » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 5:12 PM UTC

Damaging my mind is my biggest fear. I had a simple surgery a year ago(shoulder arthroscopy), and I specifically said that I don't agree to general anesthesia or any kind of sedatives, because even a small probability of a small brain damage isn't worth it for me.

Doctors tried to push me into accepting the general anesthesia, saying that it's the only option(and that we lose brain cells every day really, so who cares). I went to a different clinic where a doctor agreed to do the surgery under local anesthetics and without sedation without any problems. Said someting along the lines "don't worry, man, your brain is gonna be fine."

He failed to mention that local anesthesia can also lead to neurotoxicity, and I was too ignorant to know about it(for some reason I assumed that local anesthetics are harmless, and didn't do my research).

During the surgery I felt the symptomps(dizziness, difficulty speaking), consistent with neurotoxicity caused by local anesthetics.

I don't notice any permanent damage, though I doubt that I'd be able to tell. 6 months after the surgery I have developed tinnitus, but I can't tell if it's connected to it or not.

Anyway, my point is that no way in hell would I agree to the surgery if I'd have known the risks.

Also, before that, doctors pushed me into unnecessarily taking general anesthesia for a routine procedure. They convinced me that it can't be harmful, and I was too young and socially awkward to ask more questions or argue.

I also fear dental anesthetics. There is research indicating that they can cause neurotoxocity. I can easily sit through filling regular cavities(with a dental laser it really isn't that painful), but I'm not sure what I would do if I have to get root canal. I would take any option over anesthesia, but I don't know of any alternative.

Some doctors say that it's just an irrational fear. But given that there's some research saying that even dental anesthesia can cause neurotixicity, I'm not sure what's so irrational about not wanting my brain cells to die. My brain is what matters to me the most in the world, far more than anything else, it has infinite value, because that's literally "me", so even small chance of small damage is worth avoiding at all cost(in my value system).

It's infuriating how casual doctors are about such risks, especially in cases when they can be avoided. I understand taking necessary risks when it's a life-saving surgery, but when you have alternatives, I think patient should be able to make an informed choice.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#39

Post by realityking » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 5:13 PM UTC

noblethrasher wrote: post #9

In a talk that I attended, Steve Wozniak mentioned that he studied a lot of psychology when he returned to the university after leaving Apple. He thinks that he may have been the first person to have come up with idea that we lose our memories with our teeth, and that researchers later discovered a link between the loss of our early autobiographical memories and the loss of our baby teeth.

My Mom's got only three teeth left. Going by this theory, she should remember barely anything. But she does remember a lot.

Re: After simple dental surgery, William lost his ability to form new memories

#40

Post by bunderbunder » Sun, Jul 05, 2015, 5:17 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #15

csomar wrote: post #11

The doctors initially suspected that he’d reacted badly to the anaesthetic, causing a brain haemorrhage – yet they failed to find evidence of injury. So he was discharged with the mystery still hanging over him, and the family moved back to England, where he was referred to the office of Gerald Burgess, a clinical psychologist in Leicester. Scouring the medical literature, he found five similar cases of mysterious me…

Earlier this year I had a medical procedure and was given "twilight" anesthesia. I was explicitly told "you need to have your spouse or a friend here because we're going to give you instructions afterward and you probably won't remember it". And, sure enough, my memory was pretty much wiped for the hour or so after the event. Later that evening I had a conversation with my wife that went like this: "Um, did you help…

This is a problem with some of the drugs they use during C-sections, too. When my son was born by surprise Caesarean, I think that was one of the things my wife and I were most worried about - that she would have no memory whatsoever of our son's first few hours of life.