31–40 of 45 posts
This is great, but what I think is sorely needed is a roadmap to navigating the maze of module systems, transpilers, preprocessors, packagers, etc. Why do npm and bower both exist? What is the difference between UglifyJS and Closure Compiler? Do I want WebPack or Browserify? Should I use these standalone or should I use them together with Gulp, Grunt, or another build tool? Which of the hundreds or thousands of plugi…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm inviting you to level up. It's time. Appeal to authority noted. You think you know better than csvan, but without any real arguments, you resort to using moral platitudes that you think speak to the crowd. csvan said "a field which is traditionally male-dominated.". You agreed with this yourself by stating that Software is 80-90% male in your experience. Then he followed up with an opinion, stating "I don't thi…
Okay, let's start from the top. @csvan: This is to be expected from a field which is traditionally male-dominated. An attempt to justify why there are zero women listed (despite women making up 10-20%). @csvan: Personally I don't think gender matters at all Sure, you could interpret this either as a statement of not-yet-reached ideal or as a statement of eyes-closed naivity. Considering he opened with a rationalisati…
You're arguing against a strawman with statistics that you yourself said that you only have anecdotal evidence for. Saying what one expects is vastly different than saying that something is justified.
According to you, men are horrible jerks to women in this industry, so why then would you expect those men to honor women by listing them as people to follow? It doesn't make any sense.
> Sure, you could interpret this either as...
You didn't even try try asking what he meant. Instead you went with the full-on attack. You're setting a great example for the world of tolerant and open-mindedness that you're allegedly arguing for.
> Back in reality, the playing field isn't flat yet so any talk of meritocracy is based on false assumptions.
How will you possibly know if any one person is already in the proper mindset if you attack them when they say things that you actually agree with like "Gender shouldn't matter at all..."? No, you're right. Shoot first and sort them out later.
> Uh huh. For criticising his comments rather than holding hands in a prayer circle?
There you go again. You're arguing against your own assumptions. I downvoted you for your unwarranted vitriol, end of story. Have a nice day!
Glancing at this, it has some clearly outdated information... And it has a lot of links but I don't see a lot of meaty information. It's very shallow. JS best practices are questionable at best. As an example, when React came out everyone was saying how much of a terrible idea it was (with me being one of those people, unfortunately), and how templates and code should be kept separate... But then I tried it, and I re…
In the 1960s, Djikstra said "Testing shows the presence, not the absence of bugs", which is true.
Testing is a good tool to prevent regressions. A form of testing that I find quite interesting - and wish more people would look into - is property based testing. A good example of this can be found here http://fsharpforfunandprofit.com/pbt/. Scott Wlaschin is also quite good at teaching across coding paradigms, not just functional.
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Okay, let's start from the top. @csvan: This is to be expected from a field which is traditionally male-dominated. An attempt to justify why there are zero women listed (despite women making up 10-20%). @csvan: Personally I don't think gender matters at all Sure, you could interpret this either as a statement of not-yet-reached ideal or as a statement of eyes-closed naivity. Considering he opened with a rationalisati…
> An attempt to justify why there are zero women listed (despite women making up 10-20%). You're arguing against a strawman with statistics that you yourself said that you only have anecdotal evidence for. Saying what one expects is vastly different than saying that something is justified. According to you, men are horrible jerks to women in this industry, so why then would you expect those men to honor women by list…
I downvoted you for your unwarranted vitriol, end of story.
Maybe (correct me if I'm wrong) you saw the "level up" comment as a personal criticism. Well my intention with that comment was to include @csvan and make it clear that he could let go of that opinion and grow. It wasn't vitriol at all.
As for the rest of your comments, I honestly don't know if you're trolling me or not. You complain about me using straw men to attack @csvan, then use straw men to attack me ("According to you, men are horrible jerks to women in this industry"). You complain about me not providing data, then provide none yourself. You complain about me not giving @csvan a chance to explain himself then downvote me without engaging in a conversation yourself.
What do you see as the root cause of this disagreement?
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With respect, you're flat wrong here. The consequences of this kind of thing are serious for our industry. This is to be expected... Software isn't a 100% male field; maybe 80-90% in my experience. That means: (a) This list is missing great people, e.g. @ErisDS who was the lead engineer (now CTO) for the Ghost blogging platform (b) This list is thoughtlessly unsupportive of the minority 10-20% in terms of role models…
Thanks, you said this about a million times better than I did.
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> An attempt to justify why there are zero women listed (despite women making up 10-20%). You're arguing against a strawman with statistics that you yourself said that you only have anecdotal evidence for. Saying what one expects is vastly different than saying that something is justified. According to you, men are horrible jerks to women in this industry, so why then would you expect those men to honor women by list…
I downvoted you for your unwarranted vitriol, end of story. Please point out anywhere I was cruel, or criticised @csvan as a person, rather than the maturity of the ideas he expressed. @csvan hasn't replied yet but I'm happy to apologise to him if he felt any of my criticism was directed at him rather than the ideas he expressed. Maybe (correct me if I'm wrong) you saw the "level up" comment as a personal criticism.…
Telling someone that they are sticking their fingers in their ear (strongly implying that they're acting like a child) and then telling them to "level up" clearly conveys vitriol. It's just a bullshit, reactionary, polarizing and inflammatory statement to make. You say that you want everybody to respect each other, but then you do that. I don't think I can spell it out any more clearly.
(Also, when I said "According to you, men are horrible jerks" I was referring to your view of the "utopian finger-in-ears attitude [which] ignores the reality of the harrassment and the systemic uphill battle female devs face". Clearly one can say that you think industry men are horrible jerks without creating a strawman. It's a misunderstanding, I didn't quote you out of laziness. There's a fine line between a misunderstanding and a strawman, but it's there. Why don't we just chalk this whole exchange up as a misunderstanding?)
You're hot on the subject of women's rights. I get it. But I'm glad that paulcole's original question that started the whole sub-thread got many downvotes here because my own opinion is that I'm sick of hearing about women's plight in the first world. Give me a fraking break. This is a post about Javascript. Let's talk about that and if the alleged 10-20% of women in the industry decides to join in to talk about the actual fraking topic, let's not make a big deal about it.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
With respect, you're flat wrong here. The consequences of this kind of thing are serious for our industry. This is to be expected... Software isn't a 100% male field; maybe 80-90% in my experience. That means: (a) This list is missing great people, e.g. @ErisDS who was the lead engineer (now CTO) for the Ghost blogging platform (b) This list is thoughtlessly unsupportive of the minority 10-20% in terms of role models…
Thanks, you said this about a million times better than I did.
Glancing at this, it has some clearly outdated information... And it has a lot of links but I don't see a lot of meaty information. It's very shallow. JS best practices are questionable at best. As an example, when React came out everyone was saying how much of a terrible idea it was (with me being one of those people, unfortunately), and how templates and code should be kept separate... But then I tried it, and I re…
I have a screencast on this subject at http://www.letscodejavascript.com . It's been going for three years and has tons of content on this subject.
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I downvoted you for your unwarranted vitriol, end of story. Please point out anywhere I was cruel, or criticised @csvan as a person, rather than the maturity of the ideas he expressed. @csvan hasn't replied yet but I'm happy to apologise to him if he felt any of my criticism was directed at him rather than the ideas he expressed. Maybe (correct me if I'm wrong) you saw the "level up" comment as a personal criticism.…
The root cause of my responses is your attitude. You berated this person for no good reason after reading two sentences of what they had to say. Regardless of what you think about how I'm responding to this, I wish you would just acknowledge that simple fact. Telling someone that they are sticking their fingers in their ear (strongly implying that they're acting like a child) and then telling them to "level up" clear…
You berated this person...
Telling someone that they are sticking their fingers in their ear
(strongly implying that they're acting like a child) and then
telling them to "level up" clearly conveys vitriol.
It's not a personal attack. Everyone has shared immature or half-informed opinions; it's a human thing to do. Do I think @csvan is a bad person? I sincerely doubt it.
Vitriol means "bitterness or cruelty". Why do you think it vitriolic for me to treat @csvan's comments as immature?
He made his comments because he considers himself a good guy, defending meritocracy. I'm making my comments because there's plenty of evidence of flawed assumptions rotting away underneath that meritocracy. I'm not angry with him, or bitter, and I don't want to hurt his feelings. All I want to do is change his mind, and whoever else reads this thread. Yours too.
This is a post about Javascript. Let's talk about that...
...my own opinion is that I'm sick of hearing about women's plight in the first world.
Am I wrong? Does hearing about the tech industry being inhospitable to women make you angry? If so, why?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The root cause of my responses is your attitude. You berated this person for no good reason after reading two sentences of what they had to say. Regardless of what you think about how I'm responding to this, I wish you would just acknowledge that simple fact. Telling someone that they are sticking their fingers in their ear (strongly implying that they're acting like a child) and then telling them to "level up" clear…
You berated this person... I disagree. Telling someone that they are sticking their fingers in their ear (strongly implying that they're acting like a child) and then telling them to "level up" clearly conveys vitriol. I think @csvan shared an immature opinion, and I'm happy to stand by that. It's not a personal attack. Everyone has shared immature or half-informed opinions; it's a human thing to do. Do I think @csva…