Dune, 50 years on • Hacker News Board

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#71

Post by gommm » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 4:12 PM UTC

tinco wrote: post #68

proofofconcept wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've already sloged through Dune Messiah and Children of Dune then you should consider giving God Emperor of Dune a chance because it's very different from the first two sequels. The setting has dramatically changed, so there is a lot of new worldbuilding; the overall narrative shifts to focus on a new central character; there is a return to the more philosophical content of the original as opposed to the strict…

If I would attempt a re-reading of Dune, would it be advisable to skip those two sequals? It's been over 10 years since I read Dune and among the few things I remember is that I found it a painfully slow read full of details I wasn't interested in and words I couldn't bother to learn. My English is a bit better now, and I like to think I've become a bit more patient ;) So perhaps I could attempt it again and see if I…

I think you can just skip the first two sequels... The emperor god of dune still reads fine without remembering those two sequels perfectly.

Incidentally I agree, while the first two sequels are interesting they are a bit of a slow read and they don't feel as well written as the later books. Frank Herbert really starts to get into his stride with the Emperor God of Dune.

The books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson are better avoided like all works by Kevin J Anderson (who is IMO a very mediocre writer)

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#72

Post by walterbell » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 4:19 PM UTC

tunap wrote: post #70

jon-wood wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shunning of computers is probably the aspect I found most interesting at first. Are the Butlerian Jihad books actually any good? I'd love to read more about it, but I don't want to ruin my love of the universe with some shoddy fan fiction, even if it is written by Herbert's son.

I read one BH/KJA book and it's name/content is not worthy of recollection. Horrible, fourth grade reading level stuff, IMO. The Butlerian Jihad was very intriguing to me, as well. As a youth I found it hard to imagine such extremes that would bring about such a rejection of technology and it's benefits. At 45yo, however, I find the drawbacks of modern systems have become too 'costly' to my person and am embarking up…

> the drawbacks of modern systems have become too 'costly'

In terms of distraction, privacy, nudging or something else?

> cleansing of over-bearing, insinuating devices in my life

Are you eliminating apps which send data to 3rd-parties, with something like ownCloud or Synology?

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#73

Post by swagv » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 4:28 PM UTC

I enjoyed Dune, but it has much to do with software/hacking as installing a kitchen garbage disposal.

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#74

Post by snowwrestler » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #15

I thoroughly enjoyed Dune. It had an interesting story, set in an even more interesting world. However, it's also the kind of book that should never have had a sequel; other books in the series not only don't measure up, but actively undermine what made the original interesting. It's possible that other good stories could have been written in that universe, but they weren't. I highly recommend reading only the origin…

The sequels don't undermine the original story, they expand on it.

A lot of people think Dune is a straightforward hero story, with Paul Atreides the "good" hero, but actually (edit: I should say, according to Herbert and taking into account the later novels) it is the story of the terrible damage a "hero" can cause to a culture and society.

"No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero." - Frank Herbert

This is similar to Cryptonomicom, which people think is the story of Avi and Randy's success, but is really the story of their misguided quest which is doomed to fail.

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#75

Post by gommm » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #18

contingencies wrote: post #11

For the kids: though technically the RTS genre existed earlier in one or two games, it was essentially nearly singlehandedly popularized by Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty . The graphics and sound, probably inspired by the Amiga, were awesome in the era! So many elements of modern RTS were already present: multiple civilizations, each with specialist unit types. Level-oriented progression. Resource harvesting. Ter…

Erm. Let's not forget Dune the adventure game by Cryo as well, which was some kind of Adventure game mixed with real time strategy in the later parts of the game. Very well done.

Yes, it's the highlight of Cryo's output. Everything from this game is great from the music by Stephane Picq to the mixture of adventure game, trading and strategy.

Lost Eden follows a similar concept but it's nowhere as good.

Dune 2 by Westwood which came out around the same time was also very innovative for the time and is really the father of all RTS.

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#76

Post by snowwrestler » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

jeffwass wrote: post #66

MarcScott wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. A little like the Ender's Game series. The first two are great, and the rest seem a little like nothing more than a revenue source. Obligatory XKCD link - https://xkcd.com/304/

Am I the only one who didn't like Speaker for the Dead? To me it felt like a big let down after Ender's Game.

I think that is the point--to show that situations that seem like inspiring hero stories from one perspective, are actually more complicated from a broader view.

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#77

Post by ekianjo » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 4:56 PM UTC

gommm wrote: post #75

ekianjo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm. Let's not forget Dune the adventure game by Cryo as well, which was some kind of Adventure game mixed with real time strategy in the later parts of the game. Very well done.

Yes, it's the highlight of Cryo's output. Everything from this game is great from the music by Stephane Picq to the mixture of adventure game, trading and strategy. Lost Eden follows a similar concept but it's nowhere as good. Dune 2 by Westwood which came out around the same time was also very innovative for the time and is really the father of all RTS.

Yeah, Picq even made a music CD based on his music from Dune, and it's really good.

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#78

Post by grogenaut » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 5:05 PM UTC

jeffwass wrote: post #66

MarcScott wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. A little like the Ender's Game series. The first two are great, and the rest seem a little like nothing more than a revenue source. Obligatory XKCD link - https://xkcd.com/304/

Am I the only one who didn't like Speaker for the Dead? To me it felt like a big let down after Ender's Game.

You'll like the "Shadow" books then.

Enders game is a space battle thriller with a great twist.

Speaker is all about what do you consider "human" and what do you consider "alien". It was very mind expanding when I was 14.

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#79

Post by reagency » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 5:34 PM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #78

jeffwass wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who didn't like Speaker for the Dead? To me it felt like a big let down after Ender's Game.

You'll like the "Shadow" books then. Enders game is a space battle thriller with a great twist. Speaker is all about what do you consider "human" and what do you consider "alien". It was very mind expanding when I was 14.

The alien-vs-human issue was covered in the beginning setup and then the end of ender's game, when ender realized what he had done. Do you need a whole other book to drive the point home?

Re: Dune, 50 years on

#80

Post by reagency » Sat, Jul 04, 2015, 5:35 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #51

revscat wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree with Tolkien on this front. Yes, I know: I'm disagreeing with an author's assessment of his own work. But authors are necessarily a part of their environment. It is -- literally -- inescapable. The good Professor was directly involved in the first World War, and the second was at his doorstep. His aversion to modernity could have led to him simply denying a a conscious connection between those re…

I think LoTR has much deeper connections to the First World War than the second. WWI is outside of our frame of reference, but for example LoTR was very much a ground war.

Would lotr have a deeper meaning if I read a wwi history or novel first?