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Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

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Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#61

Post by aggie »

lutorm wrote: post #60

Having grown up in Sweden, being told that fluoride applied topically was functional at reducing caries but that eating toothpaste or swallowing the fluoride rinse that we got in elementary school was bad for you, I was astonished to learn that some countries put it in their water. Even in the U.S., toothpaste containers warn you not to swallow it and contact a Poison Control Center if you accidentally do. And then t…

Just a guess but those cases are probably due to the fluoride concentration of the rinse and toothpaste. Things that can be beneficial at small doses can be harmful in larger doses.

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#62

Post by tptacek »

evunveot wrote: post #26

From what I've read, we've already identified the specific bacteria responsible for tooth decay [1], but there seems to have no interest in developing treatments based on that insight. Instead we're supposed to essentially sterilize our mouths and remineralize our teeth (which is something saliva does naturally) with topical fluoride twice a day. My cat has never brushed her teeth, and they're fine, presumably becaus…

Have you not owned a lot of cats? Tooth decay in cats is a really common problem. Both our cats have needed teeth pulled.

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#63

Post by Elrac »

evunveot wrote: post #40
giarc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made the news awhile ago, it's called STAMP (specifically targeted antimicrobial peptides). Here's a 2011 article that seems to show some progress. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21860239

Wow, this is really interesting. Googling "C16G2" brought up some newer info. There's not much mainstream coverage, mostly just press releases and studies. But the company that's running with this is apparently called C3 Jian. http://www.c3-jian.com/ They raised a $60M Series D in March of last year. http://www.fiercebiotech.com/press-releases/c3-jian-closes-6... They completed a Phase II clinical trial last Fall whe…

There's a significant downside to this: in the long term, this leads to the evolution of super-resistant bacteria. I have little doubt this treatment will be effective in the short term but no idea what the rebound will look like.

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#64

Post by jws »

knodi123 wrote: post #37
giarc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made the news awhile ago, it's called STAMP (specifically targeted antimicrobial peptides). Here's a 2011 article that seems to show some progress. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21860239

Evora will be glad to sell you probiotic lozenges containing benign mouth bacteria that can outcompete the harmful ones. Personally, I used them for two months as directed, and saw no real difference. Can't wait for a real product, I just hope it doesn't start off costing $200/month like some probiotics I've seen.

Curious: How would you observe a difference in two months? (HN being what it is, I'm half expecting you to tell me you were assaying your mouth bacteria with an electron microscope you made and some OpenCV hacked together on…)

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#65

Post by sliverstorm »

lutorm wrote: post #60

Having grown up in Sweden, being told that fluoride applied topically was functional at reducing caries but that eating toothpaste or swallowing the fluoride rinse that we got in elementary school was bad for you, I was astonished to learn that some countries put it in their water. Even in the U.S., toothpaste containers warn you not to swallow it and contact a Poison Control Center if you accidentally do. And then t…

I suspect that the "don't eat toothpaste" stuff is mostly overblown and primarily just to ensure kids don't eat toothpaste like candy (which kids will do). In large quantities (say, a whole tube) it will make you throw up, and maybe you could accumulate too much flouride.

Is a pea-sized drop on your toothbrush going to hurt you if you swallow it, no, but there's no reason to swallow toothpaste and a number of mild reasons why you probably shouldn't.

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#66

Post by evunveot »

evunveot wrote: post #40
giarc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made the news awhile ago, it's called STAMP (specifically targeted antimicrobial peptides). Here's a 2011 article that seems to show some progress. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21860239

Wow, this is really interesting. Googling "C16G2" brought up some newer info. There's not much mainstream coverage, mostly just press releases and studies. But the company that's running with this is apparently called C3 Jian. http://www.c3-jian.com/ They raised a $60M Series D in March of last year. http://www.fiercebiotech.com/press-releases/c3-jian-closes-6... They completed a Phase II clinical trial last Fall whe…

Regarding resistance, they say:

"C16G2 works very rapidly in vitro with a unique membrane-active mechanism of action. This physical method of killing is not targeting a single gene product, and therefore single gene mutations are unlikely to confer resistance. Also, mechanism of action, route of administration and clearance of the drug are expected to limit drug exposure to the oral mucosa, so no impact on the development of resistance in other bacteria is expected, in contrast to concerns about overuse of traditional antibiotics. Despite believing resistance is not likely, we will carefully monitor resistance in clinical trials and in laboratory experiments."

http://www.c3-jian.com/technologies/frequently-asked-questio...

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#67

Post by evunveot »

tptacek wrote: post #62
evunveot wrote: post #26

From what I've read, we've already identified the specific bacteria responsible for tooth decay [1], but there seems to have no interest in developing treatments based on that insight. Instead we're supposed to essentially sterilize our mouths and remineralize our teeth (which is something saliva does naturally) with topical fluoride twice a day. My cat has never brushed her teeth, and they're fine, presumably becaus…

Have you not owned a lot of cats? Tooth decay in cats is a really common problem. Both our cats have needed teeth pulled.

Fair enough. My cat is only four years old. But my point is that we treat tooth decay like an inevitable consequence of failing to brush and floss when we actually know it's caused by the blooming of certain specific bacteria. Brushing with fluoride helps enamel resist the decay, but it does nothing to prevent the bad bacteria from blooming again in 12 hours.

Admittedly, I hate taking care of my teeth and thinking about things this way comforts me when I fail to do so.

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#68

Post by _delirium »

ChaoticGood wrote: post #23

It is a great idea to revisit public policies that were put into place at the same time Doctors were advertising Cigarettes as healthy. Water is a precious resource and should be protected as such. "Generally, in Germany fluoridation of drinking water is forbidden. The relevant German law allows exceptions to the fluoridation ban on application. The argumentation of the Federal Ministry of Health against a general pe…

Generally Europe doesn't fluoridate its water, true, but the practical effect is a bit more nuanced. For example, Germany has mostly moved its fluoridation program from water to salt: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16156167

In Denmark the water isn't fluoridated, but its natural levels of fluoride are only slightly lower than the levels that U.S. cities add (for example in the Copenhagen water supply, fluoride is around 0.6 mg/L). So it's a bit pedantic to claim that it isn't fluoridated. It's true that the utility company is not adding more fluoride to the water, but the end result is still that the pipes are delivering tap water with fluoride in it.

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#69

Post by fapjacks »

biot wrote: post #54
fapjacks wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the sarcasm was completely lost on at least four geniuses.

Fortunately for the quality of this site, there were only a few people who lacked the self-restraint needed to avoid pointing out such a painfully obvious, reddit-esque joke.

>quality

I take it you're new here. HN has been "tech reddit" for at least a couple of years now.

(This will probably whoosh miles overhead, too).

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#70

Post by snowwrestler »

lutorm wrote: post #60

Having grown up in Sweden, being told that fluoride applied topically was functional at reducing caries but that eating toothpaste or swallowing the fluoride rinse that we got in elementary school was bad for you, I was astonished to learn that some countries put it in their water. Even in the U.S., toothpaste containers warn you not to swallow it and contact a Poison Control Center if you accidentally do. And then t…

The actual warning is:

> Keep out of reach of children under 6 years of age. If more than used for brushing is accidentally swallowed, get medical help or contact a Poison Control Center right away.

Note: more than used for brushing

So, it's fine to swallow your toothpaste if you want. But if your 4 year swallows a whole tube of it, they are probably going to get sick to their stomach.

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