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Safari is the new IE

nolanlawson.com

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Re: Safari is the new IE

#301

Post by bradleyland »

NietTim wrote: post #38

Nolan, I'm not familiar with what you do or have done, but have you ever tried to make a website back in the day? Ever tried to support IE6? 7? 8? IE literally broke the web. CSS rules which worked in every browser ever wouldn't work in IE. Entire webpages weren't formatting correctly, having to spend hours, days, on workarounds. Comparing Safari to IE is just wrong. Safari doesn't break the web, it 'just' lacks supp…

Heh. This is the least bad thing about IE.

The worst thing MS did with IE was implementing proprietary, and very aggressively protected, solutions to common problems. Developers, excited about the new features, rushed to support what they felt was the next generation of web technologies, only to get caught in Microsoft's trap. Once they held the marketshare majority, they stopped innovating.

Safari is nowhere close to a majority player in the market (not even on mobile). Thus, it could never be considered equivalent to the evils of IE.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#302

Post by emehrkay »

I use safari as my main browser, but yesterday I had to add

    -webkit-transform: translate3d(0,0,0);
So that a relative positioned element would have a higher z-index than a fixed position one. Jesus.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#303

Post by cdelsolar »

piyush_soni wrote: post #288
streptomycin wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rules that had been there for tens of years were broken by IE6? IE6 was the best browser available when it was released, and the web standards ecosystem was nothing like it is today. I think the analogy is very clear. If you want to code like it's 2000, supporting IE6 is easy, because IE6 is a very good 2000 browser. If you want to code like it's 2010, supporting Safari is easy, because Safari is a very good 201…

If I'm not wrong, Apple allows you to install Chrome on iOS? Of course for a long time they didn't allow other browsers to use their Nitro Engine (so deliberately forced them to stay slower), but seems now they allow that as well ... Again, it doesn't allow them to be made as the 'default' browser - which in itself is a big reason to criticize them.

You're not wrong, I'm looking at Chrome on my iPhone right now, I don't know what parent is talking about.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#304

Post by fapjacks »

NietTim wrote: post #38

Nolan, I'm not familiar with what you do or have done, but have you ever tried to make a website back in the day? Ever tried to support IE6? 7? 8? IE literally broke the web. CSS rules which worked in every browser ever wouldn't work in IE. Entire webpages weren't formatting correctly, having to spend hours, days, on workarounds. Comparing Safari to IE is just wrong. Safari doesn't break the web, it 'just' lacks supp…

Yeah there would definitely appear to be a generation of developers now on the scene that were doing something other than web development in the 2000s. 100% this. Web development was fucking hard ten years ago.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#305

Post by ris »

cdelsolar wrote: post #303
piyush_soni wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not wrong, Apple allows you to install Chrome on iOS? Of course for a long time they didn't allow other browsers to use their Nitro Engine (so deliberately forced them to stay slower), but seems now they allow that as well ... Again, it doesn't allow them to be made as the 'default' browser - which in itself is a big reason to criticize them.

You're not wrong, I'm looking at Chrome on my iPhone right now, I don't know what parent is talking about.

Dig a bit deeper. That is only a Chrome shell around (a slightly crippled) safari.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#306

Post by fauigerzigerk »

JohnBooty wrote: post #56
sergimansilla wrote: post #4

Agreed. However, it still has the best perceived performance. Just open a page with a heavy layout and scroll up and down, or type an address or search term in the location bar and "feel" how fast it loads. Apple really put some effort in making it "feel" extremely fast.

However, [Safari] still has the best perceived performance. Just open a page with a heavy layout and scroll up and down, or type an address or search term in the location bar and "feel" how fast it loads. The performance gap is particularly noticeable on older Macs. Safari feels about the same as other browsers on my recent Mac... but there's a big gap in responsiveness between Safari and the other browsers on my wif…

I don't find this puzzling at all. I think Apple wants Safari to be a great browser for the limited role they think the web should play.

They are putting a lot of work into making the browsing experience better on Safari, very successfully I think, but adding tons of features that could expand the role of the web as an applications platform is just not in their interest.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#307

Post by jessaustin »

Tloewald wrote: post #298
jessaustin wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different people will draw the line at different places. To you , the hypothetical malware vuln should be fixed before e.g. improving battery life by 5%. To some other user who is on a long plane journey without a power adapter and doesn't e.g. click on .flv links on specialty forums, maybe it shouldn't. But to a greedy fruit executive who wants the web to be insecure? There's no question! b^) This thread explores th…

Let's ignore the fact you didn't address my argument. There are diminishing returns. It's not like Apple has provided a web browser that basically doesn't work but has great battery life. Most people consider Safari to be the best mobile browsing experience there is. (I just googled to make sure I wasn't quoting outdated opinions and it's still true.) Safari in 10.11 has added a feature which tells you which browser…

Safari in 10.11 has added a feature which tells you which browser tab is making noise so you can close it. Just now I was so wishing for it (in Chrome -- which is my primary browser, since I'm a web developer).

http://chrome.blogspot.com/2014/01/everyone-can-now-track-do...

Good grief.

The smiley b^) means it's a joke. At this point I have to wonder who is trolling whom...

Re: Safari is the new IE

#308

Post by ladzoppelin »

Angostura wrote: post #253
collyw wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Another difference is that MS never blocked you from installing a better browser, but Apple does that on iOS. That policy is becoming increasingly ridiculous..." Why has that not resulted in anti competitive behavior lawsuits? MS got in to a fair bit of trouble for similar things. They didn't stop you installing an alternative.

I presume because it's not true. I currently reading this page in Chrome on iOS

Might want to fact check before posting.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#309

Post by isaacremuant »

butterfi wrote: post #196
VieElm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you've said here really addresses the problem discussed and really you're looking at this from the perspective of the consumer and not the developer. > Safari is nowhere near that bad [as IE was in the past] Doesn't address the problems developers are having. > I have yet to run across a page that works in Chrome that doesn't work in Safari. Try any webpage that uses WebRTC, and there's a growing number of th…

Rather then just downvote you, let me say that I (20+ years webdev) and my colleagues use our audience to determine what browsers we support, not our personal preferences. My job is to provide visitors to my clients websites with the best possible experience, not judge them on their technical choices.On the site I support, hundreds of thousands visits a year are from Safari users. Based on your comment ("deal with it…

Without having practically any serious web dev experience (just some minor freelance here and there) I can imagine a world where you both are right.

They might've done the math and realize that the amount of safari users they might gain is not worth the cost of the extra development (time & money).

You obviously do.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#310

Post by coldtea »

netfire wrote: post #247
coldtea wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That means that Apple's revenue from the app store should also be in the low billions (based on the 70/30 cut they take from app store sales and purchases). That makes it around $3 billion, before taxes and infrastructure expenses, payment deals, etc. $3 billion is spare change for Apple. They have 200 times than in cash.

Again you post information without any sources. A more accurate figure is $178 billion in cash at the beginning of this year.[1] That means they have around 59 times more than that amount in cash, not the 200 you claimed. Also, I think its telling that Apple themselves mentioned App Store Sales as a main factor in their revenue earnings for Q4 of their 2014 fiscal year. [2] What's important is how much of their total…

>That means they have around 59 times more than that amount in cash, not the 200 you claimed

Still, same order of magnitude, and still many times over their app profit.

>Also, I think its telling that Apple themselves mentioned App Store Sales as a main factor in their revenue earnings for Q4 of their 2014 fiscal year.

Telling towards what?

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