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Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

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Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#21

Post by mikeyouse »

colordrops wrote: post #5

Harvard study finding fluoride in water does negatively impact childhood development: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens...

It's important to note that this study was performed in China where they don't intentionally fluoridate their water supply. There are many areas with natural (or industrial waste..) levels of fluoride and many of these areas far exceed the level recommended for use in the US.

The current target concentration in the US is 0.7mg/L and is routinely monitored and lowered if the background level is too high where some of the 'hot spots' in China that saw childhood development issues had water containing above 6mg/L and one area had a range from 118mg/kg to 1,361mg/kg (thank you coal mining).

Another confounding factor is that many of the areas with high fluoride levels also had high aluminum, mercury, and arsenic levels as well.

I'd like to see a study comparing IQs or development with actual usage levels and without the heavy metal pollutants from industry.

Full HSPH study:

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ehp.1104...

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#22

Post by stcredzero »

happyscrappy wrote: post #12
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #8

Did anyone expect it to do so? Fluorine production was a proxy for uranium production if the only use for fluorine was for uranium production. Couldn't have the Soviets knowing how many atom bombs we were building, so we needed to use it for something else too. Something so massive that it would make it impossible to calculate how much was used for nukes. And so we put it in the water supply as an additive.

Mandrake, have you ever seen a commie drink a glass of water?

"Purity of Essence"

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#23

Post by ChaoticGood »

It is a great idea to revisit public policies that were put into place at the same time Doctors were advertising Cigarettes as healthy. Water is a precious resource and should be protected as such.

"Generally, in Germany fluoridation of drinking water is forbidden. The relevant German law allows exceptions to the fluoridation ban on application. The argumentation of the Federal Ministry of Health against a general permission of fluoridation of drinking water is the problematic nature of compuls[ory] medication." (Gerda Hankel-Khan, Embassy of Federal Republic of Germany, September 16, 1999).[0]

Germany halted its water fluoridation in the 1970s and France never started.[1]

[0] http://www.slweb.org/50reasons.html [1] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/17/water-fluoridat...

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#25

Post by tacos »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #8

Did anyone expect it to do so? Fluorine production was a proxy for uranium production if the only use for fluorine was for uranium production. Couldn't have the Soviets knowing how many atom bombs we were building, so we needed to use it for something else too. Something so massive that it would make it impossible to calculate how much was used for nukes. And so we put it in the water supply as an additive.

Can't decide if Kubrick fan or total nutjob. Well played, Sir.

For reference, the Fluoride scene in Dr. Strangelove: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2bSL5VQgM

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#26

Post by evunveot »

From what I've read, we've already identified the specific bacteria responsible for tooth decay [1], but there seems to have no interest in developing treatments based on that insight. Instead we're supposed to essentially sterilize our mouths and remineralize our teeth (which is something saliva does naturally) with topical fluoride twice a day.

My cat has never brushed her teeth, and they're fine, presumably because the microbiome in her mouth is in a state where bacteria that secrete lactic acid are crowded out by benign species. Granted, she doesn't eat many simple sugars, but I have had a vet recommend brushing her teeth twice a day as a preventative measure, which blew my mind.

I hope I live to see the day when the extent of oral hygiene maintenance and bad breath prevention is a toothpick and an occasional probiotic mouthwash or something.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_caries#Bacteria

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#27

Post by giarc »

evunveot wrote: post #26

From what I've read, we've already identified the specific bacteria responsible for tooth decay [1], but there seems to have no interest in developing treatments based on that insight. Instead we're supposed to essentially sterilize our mouths and remineralize our teeth (which is something saliva does naturally) with topical fluoride twice a day. My cat has never brushed her teeth, and they're fine, presumably becaus…

This made the news awhile ago, it's called STAMP (specifically targeted antimicrobial peptides). Here's a 2011 article that seems to show some progress.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21860239

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#28

Post by x5n1 »

niels_olson wrote: post #19
x5n1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the Fluorine Deception, they needed a way to get rid of the effluent so they made it a health product rather than toxic waste. That book however has been dismissed by most supporters of fluoridation as written by a nutbar. http://www.amazon.com/The-Fluoride-Deception-Christopher-Bry... "Concerns over fluoridated drinking water have long been derided as the obsession of McCarthyite cranks. But this muckra…

> affluent effluent

thx. corrected.

Re: Water Fluoridation May Not Prevent Cavities, Scientific Review Shows

#30

Post by tokenadult »

jessriedel wrote: post #6
tokenadult wrote: post #3

As the article notes, this is all based on the Cochrane Collaborative methodology of searching for prior published scientific literature, and is not a conclusion based on a fresh study. The article also points out, "Another 2009 review[link] by the Cochrane group clearly shows that fluoride toothpaste prevents cavities, serving as a useful counterpoint to fluoridation’s uncertain benefits." [link] http://www.cochrane…

A new Cochrane meta-analysis is much more likely to make me change my mind about some empirical claim than a fresh study.

On the whole, the Cochrane Collaboration is a force for good, but its methodology of reviewing previous published studies lets it miss important issues of prior plausibility (that is, lack of plausibility) when reviewing "alternative" treatments.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/of-sbm-and-ebm-redux-pa...

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