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Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#191
post #131

Just remember that in quantum physics, any interaction between two particles is a measurement.

Something like this should be the top reply for every "quantum weirdness" Hacker News link.

Schrödinger's cat thought experiment was meant to highlight the absurdity of stochastic thinking by taking it to the extreme, not as a description of reality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would quite possibly be the worst optimization ever. "Yeah, I could have tracked and updated n values pretty cheaply, but instead I decided to exponentiate an exponentially huge matrix and use that to update a vector containing 2^n complex numbers associated with the possible assignments of the original n bits. Also, you should use bogosort. It's the best."

Maybe the 2^n version is necessary to support consciousness?

"Lol. And you little sims still think you're conscious. So cute."

/jk

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it fascinating at just how much of our fundamental physics ends up being constraints on information movement. The laws of thermodynamics are about entropy, general relativity puts constraints on the movement of information (for example, Spooky Action as a Distance(tm) is faster than light, but you can't transmit information with it), the Uncertainty Principle puts limits on how much information you can…

I'm fascinated by such things also. I often can't help thinking of God as a programmer, though I don't know how much of that is confirmation bias of my priors as a theist and a programmer. But I've always thought the periodic table and DNA both felt a lot like code...

Physical constants look alot Like magic knobs defined in some header file.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#195
post #84

I'm not familiar with this particular experiment, but all my pondering on the subject - as a layman - leads me to a simple conclusion. The properties these experiments are measuring are simply bogus. They are not well defined. The answer that comes out is not some intrinsic property of the "particle", but the result of the environment in which the particle interacted with the "measurement" system, so to speak. The pa…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_variable_theory

When people talk about hidden variable theories they still assume a definite answer exists.

I'm saying the answer doesn't exist because the question is not really valid in some sense.

Which kind of coincides with the idea that "the observable doesn't exist until measured", but I'm taking a little further and saying, it doesn't exist even when "measured" because you're not really measuring the thing you think you're measuring.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#196
post #84

I'm not familiar with this particular experiment, but all my pondering on the subject - as a layman - leads me to a simple conclusion. The properties these experiments are measuring are simply bogus. They are not well defined. The answer that comes out is not some intrinsic property of the "particle", but the result of the environment in which the particle interacted with the "measurement" system, so to speak. The pa…

The topic outlined in the OP's article has been raised before, multiple times, once every couple of years. It was even the focus of a cult indoctrination propaganda piece called "what the bleep do we know".

http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/04/what_the_bleep_.h...

Essentially, yes, it's bogus science. Quantum physics are much more complex than these articles ever bring on. But by explaining it simply, it sounds awe inspiring and so it propagates across social media. Over and over again.

It isn't that particles exist in multiple states until they are measured. It is that the mechanism by which you measure very small things affects the outcome.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#198

The linked article is titled "Experiment confirms quantum theory weirdness". Please don't exaggerate the title. These experiments do not show that "reality doesn't exist until it's measured". First, "realism" [1] is not the same thing as "reality". "Realism" basically means "physical quantities have a definite value". "Reality" is that thing that determines your experimental outcomes. Don't mix them up. Second, inter…

A standard case of mixing (or actually confusing) epistemology with ontology. That is to say that something doesn't exist until we get to know something about it. Or, by all means, knowing something about something is posterior to us being here AND that something being there. Here lies the danger of dismissing philosophy as a bag of words when compared with the Holy Science that works, bitches .

I've been reading Thomas Nagel's "Mind and Cosmos" recently, and while I think it's actually a really terrible book and Nagel is incredibly uninformed on the theory of evolution, I do think he makes one really good point: the scientific method presupposes that the universe can be understood/observed/measured. It seems like such an obvious axiom, but I think it makes sense why we keep brushing up with observation / consciousness when we push the boundaries of science. It's sort of tautological in a way.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#199

And perhaps someday we'll get to meet the great programmer in the sky the developed the simulation we are living in and we will ask him why he designed it that way and he will say something like "oh I just wanted to optimize the code so I simply excluded reality subroutines when there were no beings looking. I just never thought you guys would notice. As soon as I saw that you guys noticed the flaw, I was going to lo…

I always find it fascinating at just how much of our fundamental physics ends up being constraints on information movement. The laws of thermodynamics are about entropy, general relativity puts constraints on the movement of information (for example, Spooky Action as a Distance(tm) is faster than light, but you can't transmit information with it), the Uncertainty Principle puts limits on how much information you can…

Because you need information exchange on the fundamental level to get an arrow of time on the macro level.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#200

http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html says: at least one of the following propositions is true: (1) the human species is very likely to go extinct before reaching a “posthuman” stage; (2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof); (3) we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation. It follows…

Proposition (2) is just flagrantly, blatantly bullshit. The amount of computational power needed to simulate even just the bits of the universe we conscious humans happen to be observing at any one time is so stupendously humongous that you'd get more utility out of repurposing your cosmic-scale computers to play video games.
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