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Safari is the new IE

nolanlawson.com

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Re: Safari is the new IE

#41

Post by mbell »

benjamindc wrote: post #16

Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). You might disagree with Apple's priorities, but it doesn't mean other browsers are "better" per se, they're just different. Safari's release cycle, however, is stupid per se.

> In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …).

I use Safari for all my general browsing for one reason: It uses 1/2 to 1/5 the power that chrome does.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#42

Post by Cshelton »

gwbas1c wrote: post #11

The article misses the point. The browser is a document viewer, not an application delivery platform. Back in 2005 we all thought that web-based applications were going to take the world by storm, but now that we have slick application stores on all major platforms, this isn’t the case. If you need functionality like you describe, ship a native application via an app store. It’s a much better experience than web deve…

The browser will be the main application delivery platform. As a business or startup, you can afford to write an app on one platform at first. Choosing IOS over Andriod, or vise versa can have a severe limitation on your customer reach. However, the web will run everywhere. Mobile, desktop, tablet, all on the same code base written by the same developers. Especially if the app is not some social app where it needs the crazy UX. Most business applications are very good and feature rich in the web alone.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#44

Post by smrtinsert »

exelius wrote: post #34

Disagree with this assessment. IE was so bad because Microsoft tried to go off and create its own standards that were incompatible with Mozilla / Firefox / etc. (I'm thinking of IE6 specifically). And this was big, core functionality like page layout and CSS; not some data structures that can be implemented in other ways (albeit with a performance hit). This was doubly bad because "enterprise" companies (SAP, SAS, Or…

That's right Apple, can do no wrong. Where do these guys get off criticizing them? How dare they.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#45

Post by Tloewald »

criswell wrote: post #19
superiortoyou wrote: post #7

If Safari became a little too good, people might stop buying or developing apps.

Absolutely agreed. They want the web to lose.

Absolutely disagree.

Apple wants to make the best experience for users because then they'll keep buying Apple products. If users want the web, then they make the browser better. If Apps are more appropriate, then they make apps better.

Apple prioritizes stuff users care about -- battery life > IndexedDB, accessibility > WebGL.

Until you understand this and stop thinking like a conspiracy theorist, you won't understand Apple and will keep confusing your priorities with user priorities.

Again: pleasing users -> profit. Making web lose -> ???

This isn't "embrace and extend" -- Microsoft added huge swathes of proprietary functionality to IE and tended (and tends) to prioritize developer and corporate IT desires over users. Insofar as Apple extends the browser, they do it through standards and proposed standards and (mostly) open source the implementations.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#46

Post by coldtea »

superiortoyou wrote: post #7

If Safari became a little too good, people might stop buying or developing apps.

Which has been stated again and again, but was never an issue with Apple.

First because what they make from the App Store is spare change for them.

Second because they did have the best browser for a while, and did very much to advance the state of the art (from WebSQL, to Canvas, CSS 3D and other stuff, all originating there, along with the original fast-JITed JS engine who started the JS-race to what we have know). And they did that for years after they had an App platform available too.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#47

Post by joshuacc »

Cshelton wrote: post #32
sz4kerto wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe on OSX, yes. On Windows on my PC, basically every browser beats Safari on my retina MBP if it comes to speed.

Apple has stopped supporting Safari on Windows. SO yes, you are using Safari 5.0, from over 2 and a half years ago...of course every other browser will beat it.

The comment you're responding to specified Safari on OSX.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#48

Post by smrtinsert »

spaar wrote: post #15
sigzero wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I should delete my Google Chrome app then? Granted it doesn't take the default for things but I can still use it.

The iOS version of Chrome doesn't use Chrome's rendering and JavaScript engines though, per the App Store rules it has to use WebKit [0]. So, any other browser app on iOS would have the same problems as mobile Safari. [0] http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/06/28/chrome-ios (linked by the article btw)

That's amazing. Thanks for reminding me how much contempt they have for choice.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#49

Post by exelius »

dailyrorschach wrote: post #8
sergimansilla wrote: post #4

Agreed. However, it still has the best perceived performance. Just open a page with a heavy layout and scroll up and down, or type an address or search term in the location bar and "feel" how fast it loads. Apple really put some effort in making it "feel" extremely fast.

I use Safari daily as my primary browser on desktop. I don't doubt it presents challenges for developers, and hope they update faster. But, not only is it fast on OS X, the battery life optimization is amazing. I run Safari without Flash installed, and only need to pop over to Chrome once and a while. I've come to understand Chrome is making more power consumption adjustments in it's OS X version, and look forward to…

Chrome is bloated and inefficient; even if it's not doing power-saving CPU scheduling. The "one process per tab" model seems great, but it allows Google to ignore performance problems in the browser and push them off to the page itself. That said, Google is a lot more active in pushing the envelope of browser development, so even though I personally stopped using Chrome, I still appreciate the work Google is doing on it.

Totally agree with the speed of Safari. I have Flash enabled, albeit with a plugin that forces click-to-load. Safari is a lot faster than Chrome at this point; it just feels more like the fast, stripped-down browser that I want.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#50

Post by coldtea »

Cshelton wrote: post #35
tzakrajs wrote: post #25

Firefox renders pages terribly and is the real dud here. edit: not speed, but aesthetic quality and parity with Chrome/Safari

Do you have a very outdated version of FF? Firefox is actually starting to beat Chrome on many benchmarks once again.

He's talking about rendering (quality) not speed.
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