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Safari is the new IE

nolanlawson.com

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Re: Safari is the new IE

#21

Post by Loque »

gwbas1c wrote: post #11

The article misses the point. The browser is a document viewer, not an application delivery platform. Back in 2005 we all thought that web-based applications were going to take the world by storm, but now that we have slick application stores on all major platforms, this isn’t the case. If you need functionality like you describe, ship a native application via an app store. It’s a much better experience than web deve…

I think there is a lot more in this than you make out. Unless you really need specific hardware access that cannot be achieved in the browser alone, creating a mobile app is an unnecessary, very complicated set of hoops, to jump through, for each platform, as well as then making a desktop app/website.

A side comment would be that you can make your webapp perform remarkably well on mobile, with things like HW accelerated transitions, local storage, etc...

Re: Safari is the new IE

#22

Post by realityking »

bickfordb wrote: post #17

The definition of a web browser is enormous now. Even though Apple has massive resources, is it really fair to rant against them for not implementing every possible specification, five years old or not? If web assembly is supposedly as fast as C, why can't we have web browsers with a smaller built-in feature set and implement new specifications as libraries?

While web assembly may give us performance, it doesn't give us access to new platform API. Web assembly can in no way replace Service Worker, IndexedDB or Web Manifests.

It also won't help with Web Components unless you're aming for a Web where we just draw on a big canvas.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#23

Post by swsieber »

gwbas1c wrote: post #11

The article misses the point. The browser is a document viewer, not an application delivery platform. Back in 2005 we all thought that web-based applications were going to take the world by storm, but now that we have slick application stores on all major platforms, this isn’t the case. If you need functionality like you describe, ship a native application via an app store. It’s a much better experience than web deve…

The browser has been and is a document viewer, but it's also becoming a application delivery platform and has been for quite some time. App delivery can be cross platform easily if Apple steps up their game.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#24

Post by Tloewald »

benjamindc wrote: post #16

Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). You might disagree with Apple's priorities, but it doesn't mean other browsers are "better" per se, they're just different. Safari's release cycle, however, is stupid per se.

Exactly.

Apple adds features based on what users seem to need, not what programmers want (Google) or programmers want to work on (Mozilla).

It should also be noted that Safari's accessibility support is head and shoulders above anything (including IE with dedicated third-party extensions -- our blind accessibility guy who has access to every accessible technology under the sun simply uses Apple devices at home).

Wake me up when IE is open source, Google gives flying f* about accessibility, and Firefox is better than a distant second.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#26

Post by Cshelton »

As a user, I love Safari. The hand off between my macbook and iphone is amazing, it feels smoother than other browsers.

As a developer, I would say they are just doing a few things differently. I think the web API and DOM/css should have a standard set that every browser has to implement in the same way. It's actually way way better than it used to be. However, I'm fine with additional api features as targeting browsers is not not difficult and may open up some cool features. Like perhaps native notifications API on IOS Safari, that would be sweet!

For the base Web API though, Safari has deviated on a few small things, but it's not really to the point where IE6 was.

Also, people will upgrade Safari. Unlike IE6, where IT shops would not upgrade because of Active X applications, Safari will at least be upgraded. So I think it's unfair to compare it to the old IE.

P.S., The new Windows Edge browser in Windows 10 is pretty amazing, it feels like Chrome. Very fast. And if you are not familiar with the Mozilla Servo project, it's worth checking out. It still has a long way to go, but down the line could be very interesting.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#27

Post by tzakrajs »

tzakrajs wrote: post #25

Firefox renders pages terribly and is the real dud here. edit: not speed, but aesthetic quality and parity with Chrome/Safari

Evidence is anecdotal and based on browser compatibility bugs reported to me on web apps I develop. Chrome and Safari are best in class in this regard.

Firefox has gross UI elements that remind me of the 90s.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#28

Post by yAnonymous »

benjamindc wrote: post #16

Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). You might disagree with Apple's priorities, but it doesn't mean other browsers are "better" per se, they're just different. Safari's release cycle, however, is stupid per se.

As stated in the article, often Safari's implementation just sucks.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#29

Post by sz4kerto »

sergimansilla wrote: post #4

Agreed. However, it still has the best perceived performance. Just open a page with a heavy layout and scroll up and down, or type an address or search term in the location bar and "feel" how fast it loads. Apple really put some effort in making it "feel" extremely fast.

Maybe on OSX, yes. On Windows on my PC, basically every browser beats Safari on my retina MBP if it comes to speed.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#30

Post by jug »

It isn't as bad as what led to IE's state that took several years of active development by Microsoft to even begin correcting. The gap between IE 6 and IE 7 was terrible, and IE 6 wasn't even that much more than IE 5, standards-wise.

Here's an overview of what's new in Safari (WebKit) as it ships with OS X El Capitan: https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/mac/releaseno...

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