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Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

anu.edu.au

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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#181

Post by orbifold »

madaxe_again wrote: post #142
hackinthebochs wrote: post #71

Let us not forget about Pilot-Wave theory, where it has both particle and wave-like properties simultaneously. In fact, I don't quite get why people are so enamored by these fanciful interpretations when Pilot-Wave is so much more down-to-earth.

I came here to say the same thing - this behaviour is readily explained by a pilot wave formulation of QM, and requires no spookiness. Increasing number of physicists are re-evaluating Bohm and De Broglie's work - I for one think we've been down a 60 year dead-end, which has yielded models , but no plausible mechanism.

I'm fairly certain that you would have a very hard time extending pilot wave theory to Quantum Field theory, although who kowns, maybe it is possible.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#182

Post by sideshowb »

Strilanc wrote: post #166
zw123456 wrote: post #86

And perhaps someday we'll get to meet the great programmer in the sky the developed the simulation we are living in and we will ask him why he designed it that way and he will say something like "oh I just wanted to optimize the code so I simply excluded reality subroutines when there were no beings looking. I just never thought you guys would notice. As soon as I saw that you guys noticed the flaw, I was going to lo…

That would quite possibly be the worst optimization ever. "Yeah, I could have tracked and updated n values pretty cheaply, but instead I decided to exponentiate an exponentially huge matrix and use that to update a vector containing 2^n complex numbers associated with the possible assignments of the original n bits. Also, you should use bogosort. It's the best."

Maybe the 2^n version is necessary to support consciousness?

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#183

Post by cristianpascu »

Strilanc wrote: post #161

The linked article is titled "Experiment confirms quantum theory weirdness". Please don't exaggerate the title. These experiments do not show that "reality doesn't exist until it's measured". First, "realism" [1] is not the same thing as "reality". "Realism" basically means "physical quantities have a definite value". "Reality" is that thing that determines your experimental outcomes. Don't mix them up. Second, inter…

A standard case of mixing (or actually confusing) epistemology with ontology. That is to say that something doesn't exist until we get to know something about it. Or, by all means, knowing something about something is posterior to us being here AND that something being there. Here lies the danger of dismissing philosophy as a bag of words when compared with the Holy Science that works, bitches.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#184

Post by david927 »

Ygg2 wrote: post #178
david927 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it does because, while certainly quantum scale doesn't carry the same sense of time, we do. Everything we see, what we call reality, is made up of the Lego blocks of electrons, protons and neutrons, and yet even at that level it makes no sense to talk in concrete terms about, say, an electron's spin. We would expect that the spin exists and we find out what it is when we measure it, but it's not that. It's that…

You can only conclude that "Physical reality doesn't exist until observed", if you imply nothing can move faster than light. Also hidden variable theory aren't yet categorically disproven. A fractal theory could explain why we keep getting different results when measuring reality in different ways.

I will happily imply that energy/mass cannot move faster than light.

You know, I think a hidden variable theory is a crutch. To me, there's simply a Planck's constant foundation that prevents infinite regression just as much in terms of information as it does with radiation, etc.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#186

Post by jondubois »

I always found the notion that "If you measure it, it behaves differently" to be really confusing. When considering the double slit experiment - In both cases (whether we are observing the particle going through a single slit or otherwise observing the interference pattern left afterwards), we are in fact simply measuring 'observable effects' in both cases - It's just that we are measuring them in different ways.

If you didn't measure both cases, you wouldn't be able to compare their outcomes. It seems that it is not about whether or not the event was measured/observed but about HOW and WHEN it was measured.

In neither case do we actually 'witness it happen' - In both cases, we are just observing effects of those events.

The light which allowed us to 'directly observe it' is as much a byproduct of the actual event as the interference pattern left behind on the surface.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#187

Post by Ygg2 »

david927 wrote: post #184
Ygg2 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can only conclude that "Physical reality doesn't exist until observed", if you imply nothing can move faster than light. Also hidden variable theory aren't yet categorically disproven. A fractal theory could explain why we keep getting different results when measuring reality in different ways.

I will happily imply that energy/mass cannot move faster than light. You know, I think a hidden variable theory is a crutch. To me, there's simply a Planck's constant foundation that prevents infinite regression just as much in terms of information as it does with radiation, etc.

What you imply is besides the point. It's what the finding implies. Interpreting that as "physical reality doesn't exist" is far fetched.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#188

Post by ceejayoz »

exch wrote: post #159
ghosthamlet wrote: post #96

http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html says: at least one of the following propositions is true: (1) the human species is very likely to go extinct before reaching a “posthuman” stage; (2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof); (3) we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation. It follows…

What does 'post human' mean? Unless we go extinct, we will always be humans, regardless of what species we evolve into. Our current species is "Homo Sapiens Sapiens", not "Human". Ergo, if we evolve into amorphous blobs of space goo, we will still be Human but not "Homo Sapiens Sapiens". Which means it is physically impossible for us to ever reach a "post-human" stage.

I'd say you'd be posthuman if a current human wouldn't recognize you as being part of the same species.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman

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