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Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

anu.edu.au

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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#51
post #25

Clever optimization by our simulators, Big up

I've always wanted to read (or write?) a book about us determining we are in a simulation, but we find subtle flaws like this we're able to exploit in weird ways. Kind of like breaking out of a VM through register flaws or something. Anyone know of a story along those lines?

The Truman Show (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120382/) covers a lot of this turf albeit TV rather than total simulation.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#52
post #5

This is of course extremely interesting and probably important for understanding our universe—but how is it helping anyone to say something like, "...with scientists performing a famous experiment and proving that reality does not exist until it is measured." The statement is like a distraction at a magic show, drawing the reader to the glittery 'reality' and 'exist,' which are totally undefined so the reader's imagi…

"Maybe this is really just a fundamental challenge to our assumptions about motion of particles or information transfer in the universe." Check out this TED talk on just that subject. http://www.ted.com/talks/donald_hoffman_do_we_see_reality_as... Here's the punch line, space, time and matter are components of a user interface produced through evolution. We don't take the desktop and icons of our computer UI literall…

Fun to think about, but his argument is a non sequitur.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#53

If I'm standing here, all the stuff that the atoms in my body could conceivably interact with have to be backfilled for me to interact with them according to this experiment, but since I'm not special to the universe, atoms three billion light years over, they are still interacting with each other, just not with me. So am I decohered to them? Is this like a divergent timelines theory such that coherence is defined as…

The philosophical interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is a very hard, unsolved problem. There are many reasons why quantum mechanics is theoretically good and philosophically terrible, and not just in a subtle, esoteric way. The reason is that in Quantum Mechanics there are 2 main types of entities: particles, "things" that evolve according to the Schrodinger equation, and "observers". Observers are what deliver to us the results of randomly sampling from the probability distribution defined by the squared amplitude of the wave function by "collapsing" it, according to the Copenhagen interpretation. However, there is no particle that acts as an observer, they all just follow the Schrodinger equation, but nothing that exists isn't a particle. How could "observers" exist and interact with particles then? The Copenhagen interpretation is philosophically terrible. And it really pisses me off that this article title seems to hint that they've really confirmed it. In a lab, an experimenter can just point to his apparatus and say, "that's the observer". Or, being more formal, they can say a thermodynamically irreversible process plays the role of an observer. But this is not really a satisfying explanation because how could it be possible to generate these large, discontinuous motions we call "collapse" on the macroscale if it is impossible on the microscale? There are the multiverse theories that you seem to describe, but they have their own problems. Rae's Quantum Physics: http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Physics-Illusion-Reality-Class...

goes over a lot of them without getting to messy in the math. Other interpretations of QM are in the book as well. There are many:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mec...

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#54
post #25

Clever optimization by our simulators, Big up

I've always wanted to read (or write?) a book about us determining we are in a simulation, but we find subtle flaws like this we're able to exploit in weird ways. Kind of like breaking out of a VM through register flaws or something. Anyone know of a story along those lines?

"Beyond" in The Animatrix.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#55

In the time of Empiricism, the philosophers George Berkeley and John Locke proposed something similar. I believe it was called it immaterialism, or the idea that nothing exists without being perceived. Berkeley went further saying that objects only exist in the mind, or something like that.

They're not saying "nothing exists without being perceived", because the probabilities of things at the quantum level all do exist.

It seems sort of unfortunate that physicists would call these quantum probabilistic behaviors "not reality", because they are just as real as anything else.

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#57
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does it mean to exist? A thing exists specifically when it affects something else. What is measurement? It's a reciprocal affecting. All that's starting to sound an awful lot like Orthodox Christian theology about the essence of God…

Can you elaborate on the similarities? I took a course on medieval philosophy and theology (Anselm, Aquinas, Avicenna, and so on) so I am earnestly interested, but the connection isn't jumping out at me.

I think he means Aquinas' Quinque Viae

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#59
post #25

Clever optimization by our simulators, Big up

I've always wanted to read (or write?) a book about us determining we are in a simulation, but we find subtle flaws like this we're able to exploit in weird ways. Kind of like breaking out of a VM through register flaws or something. Anyone know of a story along those lines?

I think Charlie Stross did a particularly interesting one that happened within a simulation where the characters ultimately discover the enemy they were fighting already won and their simulation ran under a larger simulation. Can't remember the name...

Re: Reality doesn’t exist until it is measured, quantum experiment finds

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Maybe this is really just a fundamental challenge to our assumptions about motion of particles or information transfer in the universe." Check out this TED talk on just that subject. http://www.ted.com/talks/donald_hoffman_do_we_see_reality_as... Here's the punch line, space, time and matter are components of a user interface produced through evolution. We don't take the desktop and icons of our computer UI literall…

Fun to think about, but his argument is a non sequitur.

Maybe, but my wording is not his argument. Here is a blog version of the same idea. https://edge.org/response-detail/25450
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