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Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

theguardian.com

21–30 of 88 posts

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The licenses are what made the taxi system so inefficient.

you are correct, but blatantly ignoring the law is usually not the best way to fix that

Sometimes it's exactly the best way to fix it. Have something so good and popular the law has to change.

Prohibition didn't end because people missed the taste of alcohol; it was because people kept on drinking (and the illicit nature brought with it the trappings of criminality - corruption, violence, and murder).

Gay marriage bans were hard to "ignore" because it requires cooperation with the government, but anti-sodomy laws were generally ignored until it became comical they were still on the books.

And in general, these kinds of things are the way change happens. The first people at my work switched to git on their own discretion and against the "rules", but it caught on and was productive/popular enough that it's now common practice and no managers ruffle their feathers at the thought.

The phrase is something like - "It's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission". That's because it's easy to say no when asked for permission ("The rules are there for a reason! Tradition!"); if someone has to think about why what you did was wrong, they may come to the conclusion that you were right.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#22
Every time this topic comes up, the discussion always revolves around whether or not Uber is properly licensed, or if it's fair for them to operate. What's often overlooked is the very reason so many of these licenses became as valuable as they did in the first place, and like so many economic issues it boils down to one thing: trust.

For example, anyone who's seen more of NYC than just JFK airport and Times Square knows that that city has plenty of unlicensed rides available. This was true long before uber: white cars whose driver will only say "do you need a taxi?", and dollar-vans are everywhere. Yet, even though they offer an identical service to a licensed cab, people value them far less and fares are often 1/4 what's paid for a yellow taxi.

When it's an officially licensed taxi, you trust that their fares are regulated, your driver isn't a violent criminal, and that their vehicle's in safe working order. This is the real value uber brings: geolocation and well-designed apps are nice frills, but ultimately people are deciding more and more that they trust a business with a rating system for drivers + passengers, upfront rates (even if they vary), and GPS so in the unlikely event you are detained, you can be found.

Seriously, unless you're a lawyer, I have no idea why you'd go around debating what's legal or illegal. Instead, as citizens, we should look at the regulations we have and ask if they still serve to protect people as they once did, or if they now exist to protect political and business interests.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#23
I am astounded that the French government is doing exactly what the violent Taxi protesters (rioters?) wanted. This sends a clear message to any other groups: burn enough cars and blockade an airport and you will get what you want.

I thought the Taxi drivers would be condemned by politicians and the French public.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are correct, but blatantly ignoring the law is usually not the best way to fix that

It is, as paying fines is cheaper than paying for a license. When you get to that point, it's obvious that the regulation is backwards, and it's nobody but taxi drivers that made it this way: they got licenses for free, then fought for their right to transfer them for money, then they fought to limit new licensing. Basically they lobbied for free money and screwing customers.

> it's obvious that the regulation is backwards

Not disagreeing here. However, fines are put in place as a deterrent. In this instance, their purpose is a punishment for breaking a law. Uber is treating them like a tax and the government appears to disagree with that interpretation. If this were a case of a chemical company continuing to improperly dispose of waste, i'm sure at some point you'd want the government to step in over continued violations (i.e., stop them when they are clearly not acting in 'good faith').

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#25

> The standoff reflects larger tensions in France over how to regulate fast-moving technology and stay globally competitive while ensuring labour protections. This kind of biased journalism just pisses me off. Uber has nothing to do with "fast-moving technology". They could have done this service with on old fashioned phone dispatch in the 50s and it would still be the same illegal operation. Sure, they've added some…

[deleted]

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#26
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The licenses are what made the taxi system so inefficient.

It's not as cut and dried as getting rid of licenses. A couple of examples: - some things that come with licenses are plausibly desirable (commercial insurance, say) and have no other mechanism. Yes this argues for a different solution. - adding vehicles to road networks at or near capacity (e.g. dense metro areas) can lead to systemic inefficiencies that are plausibly much worse that the positives from a putative in…

Sure licences could be helpful, but, expectations needs to be separated from reality. Where there is power it will be abused.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are correct, but blatantly ignoring the law is usually not the best way to fix that

Tell that to Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Ghandi...

that's why i used the term "usually"

Do you honestly think Uber can be compared to the civil rights movement?

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are correct, but blatantly ignoring the law is usually not the best way to fix that

Tell that to Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Ghandi...

Yes, because providing unlicensed taxi service is the same thing as civil rights.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#29

> The standoff reflects larger tensions in France over how to regulate fast-moving technology and stay globally competitive while ensuring labour protections. This kind of biased journalism just pisses me off. Uber has nothing to do with "fast-moving technology". They could have done this service with on old fashioned phone dispatch in the 50s and it would still be the same illegal operation. Sure, they've added some…

They pay the fines and the fines are cheaper than complying with laws designed to protect monopolistic interests. You can call it illegal, but when the economics works out such that the fines for something illegal are less than the competing regulated service something needs to change.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#30

I like Uber's service, but it's obvious that they are a taxi. A better taxi company, but a taxi; and they should get their licenses in order.

The licenses are what made the taxi system so inefficient.

Maybe, maybe not, but the situation as-is is that you need a license to operate in that business, if you disagree with that fight to get it changed, but you can't purposefully decide not to follow the law including the fines as operating expenses when others keep abiding to the same laws, and then pretend the justice system is wrong when they apply the laws.
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