Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

fortune.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 172 posts

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#71

Post by dba7dba »

bobjordan wrote: post #54

Shenzhen China factory owner here. The costs are definitely rising in China for English speaking technical labor such as the engineers we need. We compete with companies like Apple and all the other foreign companies rushing to China these days to keep them employed. But we are still talking much lower salaries overall, for example, $30,000 USD/year for a degreed Sr. Electrical design engineer with 20 years experienc…

Parts maker. It's something people forget about. Britain for a time was the premier plane/jet developer and manufacturing center after WW2. Like the Comet. And that helped a lot of parts makers (like Rolls-Royce jet engine) for planes grow in UK. Even when UK lost the crown of biggest jet maker to Boeing, those parts makers in Britain are still around and thriving.

So it's more disturbing to me that you can't find such competitive/numerous parts makers in US.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#72

Post by jblow »

hifromsz wrote: post #61
jaredhansen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, while we're wishing, for my part I wish that everyone made $1B/hr! (After accounting for inflationary effects, of course.) Private jets for everyone! But back in real life, while $3/hr may not be a lot compared to what some folks make, it's $3/hr more than someone making $0/hr makes, and it's triple what someone making $1/hr makes, and indeed a full 50% raise for anyone making $2/hr. If I could wave a wand and g…

I'm not sure you would be as quick to sarcasm if you spent some time in Chinese factories. It's a though life, even in the good ones. As the purchaser you have a lot of power over the process, not just at one factory, but in which factory you choose. To me that also means you have a responsibility. The least anyone working with Chinese companies should do, is to go and look at the factories.

Yes, it's a tough life, but people actually pick that life because other options are tougher (for example being a rural farmer somewhere).

It is true that we should care about conditions in factories such as these and work to improve them. It's also true that if you insisted that Chinese workers get paid what American workers would, there would have been almost no factories and the entire country would still be in desolate poverty. Yes if there were no factories then probably the environment would be in a better condition.

It's a very complex situation. Just picking one angle to it and insisting that angle holds the whole truth does not help anyone.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#73

Post by fown9 »

throwaway0628 wrote: post #70
fown9 wrote: post #58

China has an authoritarian government that * is ruled by a secretive group of old men [1] * produces pollution that threatens the entire world [2] * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github [3] * ignores human rights and free speech [4] * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries [5] * supports dictators in Russia and Africa [6] * and prints up to 282% of GDP…

You can say much the same about the US (swap Russia and Africa for South America and Middle East). Besides, it's the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons on civilians. All super powers are threatening.

please show me where US * is ruled by a secretive group of old men * produces pollution that threatens the entire world * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries.

And every since Obama took over, our policies with human rights and dictators is much better

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#74

Post by ghaff »

ams6110 wrote: post #66
ghaff wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. I was just happening to look at a plastic bucket I was using yesterday and it was manufactured the next town over in Massachusetts, It's probably true that the US tends not to be competitive for cheap goods that don't have a large individual labor component. But it's more than high-margin items.

Injection molded plastic seems to be one industry that is still viable in the USA (just my observation, it seems common to see plastics factories here). Not sure why this is.

Assuming it is in fact the case (and it probably is for larger items at least), it's probably as part of the US-based hydrocarbon refining ecosystem in some way. (The city in question in my comment was also one of the first places to do industrial plastics manufacturing as a way to replace tortoise shell for combs etc.)

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#75

Post by Panoramix »

fown9 wrote: post #58

China has an authoritarian government that * is ruled by a secretive group of old men [1] * produces pollution that threatens the entire world [2] * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github [3] * ignores human rights and free speech [4] * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries [5] * supports dictators in Russia and Africa [6] * and prints up to 282% of GDP…

The US could fit most of your points, probably even better. The world is not "doomed". What does that even mean? China certainly has its issues, but this sort of irrational fear speaks to me of a subtle form of racism.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#76

Post by leot »

s73v3r wrote: post #57
chrischen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you exactly suggesting everyone do? He could pay them $0/hr by not giving them the jobs. You're not offering any constructive feedback while criticizing from your pedestal of inaction. I assume you used a throwaway because you didn't want to attribute that to your personal identity. Billions of Chinese were lifted from poverty by American globalization, granted at the detriment of American jobs. However it f…

"He could pay them $0/hr by not giving them the jobs." I've always found that to be the absolute shittiest of rebuttals, given by those who have absolutely no point whatsoever. This person is not "giving" anyone a job; they are not being seeing a group of people and saying, "Hmmm, they look like they could use some work. I will create some and give it to them." No. This person needed some work done, and they were off…

Environmental problems and abusive labor practices are problems and should not be tolerated. But they're nowhere close to accounting for the full discount in labor costs in China v.s. elsewhere.

Business owners factor costs into their strategies. They/we don't just have a bunch of jobs, and then go looking for people to fill them. China's cheap labor force has made possible products that wouldn't exist otherwise.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#77

Post by 21p »

Panoramix wrote: post #75
fown9 wrote: post #58

China has an authoritarian government that * is ruled by a secretive group of old men [1] * produces pollution that threatens the entire world [2] * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github [3] * ignores human rights and free speech [4] * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries [5] * supports dictators in Russia and Africa [6] * and prints up to 282% of GDP…

The US could fit most of your points, probably even better. The world is not "doomed". What does that even mean? China certainly has its issues, but this sort of irrational fear speaks to me of a subtle form of racism.

I agree with you that the world is nowhere near "doomed" or even heading in that direction. It's not fair to claim racism here, however. The poster did not mention anything about race.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#78

Post by 21p »

throwaway0628 wrote: post #70
fown9 wrote: post #58

China has an authoritarian government that * is ruled by a secretive group of old men [1] * produces pollution that threatens the entire world [2] * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github [3] * ignores human rights and free speech [4] * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries [5] * supports dictators in Russia and Africa [6] * and prints up to 282% of GDP…

You can say much the same about the US (swap Russia and Africa for South America and Middle East). Besides, it's the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons on civilians. All super powers are threatening.

From that list, I only can see the US doing:

* produces pollution that threatens the entire world

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#79

Post by JetSpiegel »

fown9 wrote: post #73
throwaway0628 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say much the same about the US (swap Russia and Africa for South America and Middle East). Besides, it's the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons on civilians. All super powers are threatening.

please show me where US * is ruled by a secretive group of old men * produces pollution that threatens the entire world * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries. And every since Obama took over, our policies with human rights and dictators is much better

* Do you know who the lobbyists in Washington are?

* The US didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol

* Three letters: NSA

* OK, you win on this one

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#80

Post by fown9 »

JetSpiegel wrote: post #79
fown9 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please show me where US * is ruled by a secretive group of old men * produces pollution that threatens the entire world * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries. And every since Obama took over, our policies with human rights and dictators is much better

* Do you know who the lobbyists in Washington are? * The US didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol * Three letters: NSA * OK, you win on this one

Now you're just pulling stuff out of thin air for arguments sake. Do you hate US that much?

If you're an American, let me ask you this, how are you making this country better?

If you're not an American, let me ask you this, would you prefer a representative democratic superpower or a communist/oligarch superpower?

Post reply on HN