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U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

fortune.com

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Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#61

Post by hifromsz »

jaredhansen wrote: post #25
chinathrow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am neither US nor chinese but I know that 3$/h is not a rate I wish anyone these days. Anywhere. Simple, eh?

Hey, while we're wishing, for my part I wish that everyone made $1B/hr! (After accounting for inflationary effects, of course.) Private jets for everyone! But back in real life, while $3/hr may not be a lot compared to what some folks make, it's $3/hr more than someone making $0/hr makes, and it's triple what someone making $1/hr makes, and indeed a full 50% raise for anyone making $2/hr. If I could wave a wand and g…

I'm not sure you would be as quick to sarcasm if you spent some time in Chinese factories. It's a though life, even in the good ones. As the purchaser you have a lot of power over the process, not just at one factory, but in which factory you choose. To me that also means you have a responsibility. The least anyone working with Chinese companies should do, is to go and look at the factories.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#62

Post by dereklei »

bobjordan wrote: post #54

Shenzhen China factory owner here. The costs are definitely rising in China for English speaking technical labor such as the engineers we need. We compete with companies like Apple and all the other foreign companies rushing to China these days to keep them employed. But we are still talking much lower salaries overall, for example, $30,000 USD/year for a degreed Sr. Electrical design engineer with 20 years experienc…

Certainly one thing the article failed to mention is the critical mass of suppliers in China that makes manufacturing much more efficient in China than in the USA. Not sure how the USA is going to address that, but I honk the first step is to bring at least some of the manufacturing back to the USA and lower energy cost certainly helps start that.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#63

Post by rgbrenner »

SiVal wrote: post #47
rjdagost wrote: post #13

For some industries the USA is and has for some time been a bit lower cost for manufacturing than China. Labor costs are only part of the equation- you also have to take into account transportation costs, energy costs, costs of obtaining capital, etc. all weighed against political, scheduling, and quality risks. For my own industry (specialty machine vision systems) outsourcing to China is almost not worth the troubl…

You left out the biggest cost of all: technology theft. The Chinese government wants its manufacturers to watch for technologies that could be of economic or military value and to pass them on to relevant Chinese organizations for use. When the local Party leader's son starts producing your "specialty machine vision systems" in his factory down the road, are you going to go to the Party-controlled court and sue him?…

Brother-in-law? Sometimes the link isn't so indirect. For example, GM has a partnership (since foreign manufacturers aren't permitted to have majority ownership (last I checked)) with Chery Motors. Chery has access to everything produced in that plant, including tooling, tech, designs, etc. Chery takes this and uses it in their own plants to produce cars that compete directly with GM (and they export these cars too).

This is why many manufacturers use last-gen tech in their products within China.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#64

Post by [deleted] »

fown9 wrote: post #58

China has an authoritarian government that * is ruled by a secretive group of old men [1] * produces pollution that threatens the entire world [2] * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github [3] * ignores human rights and free speech [4] * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries [5] * supports dictators in Russia and Africa [6] * and prints up to 282% of GDP…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#65

Post by melling »

dereklei wrote: post #62
bobjordan wrote: post #54

Shenzhen China factory owner here. The costs are definitely rising in China for English speaking technical labor such as the engineers we need. We compete with companies like Apple and all the other foreign companies rushing to China these days to keep them employed. But we are still talking much lower salaries overall, for example, $30,000 USD/year for a degreed Sr. Electrical design engineer with 20 years experienc…

Certainly one thing the article failed to mention is the critical mass of suppliers in China that makes manufacturing much more efficient in China than in the USA. Not sure how the USA is going to address that, but I honk the first step is to bring at least some of the manufacturing back to the USA and lower energy cost certainly helps start that.

Factors other than labor cost were discussed a few years ago wrt the iPhone:

http://gizmodo.com/5878209/why-apple-doesnt-make-the-iphone-...

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#66

Post by ams6110 »

ghaff wrote: post #44
jkot wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are only cheaper on expensive stuff.

It's not that simple. I was just happening to look at a plastic bucket I was using yesterday and it was manufactured the next town over in Massachusetts, It's probably true that the US tends not to be competitive for cheap goods that don't have a large individual labor component. But it's more than high-margin items.

Injection molded plastic seems to be one industry that is still viable in the USA (just my observation, it seems common to see plastics factories here). Not sure why this is.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#67

Post by hebdo »

yeukhon wrote: post #49
hebdo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what. I've lived in Beijing in 2013. You can live off 3000RMB/month = 500USD/month. That's far from being rich, but also not barely survivable. Everything was cheap for me, and I'm from Poland.

I specifically said living in China as a Chinese, so to be exact here Chinese means the Chinese local with family. I don't know much the life of foreigners / immigrants and how well they integrate into the society, but usually there are * wedding gift * "business" expense that you did out of your pocket (take your co-workers to lunch, buying gift for your clients) * gifts (giving red envelopes during Chinese New Year…

Interesting. So what is, in your opinion, the percentage of earnings an average Chinese spends on maintaining/extending his "Guanxi" and on supporting his parents/presents for relatives?

I am asking about these two specifically because they make the biggest difference between the "western" culture and the Chinese culture. The other items on your list also appear in the lives of the citizens of many European/European based countries.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#68

Post by mc32 »

fown9 wrote: post #58

China has an authoritarian government that * is ruled by a secretive group of old men [1] * produces pollution that threatens the entire world [2] * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github [3] * ignores human rights and free speech [4] * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries [5] * supports dictators in Russia and Africa [6] * and prints up to 282% of GDP…

Ok, most or all that may be true, but it's quite immediately unrelated to the discussion, which is about the cost competitiveness of China compared to US manufacturing. And quite unrelated to the points of the person you're responding to.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#69

Post by jblow »

s73v3r wrote: post #57
chrischen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you exactly suggesting everyone do? He could pay them $0/hr by not giving them the jobs. You're not offering any constructive feedback while criticizing from your pedestal of inaction. I assume you used a throwaway because you didn't want to attribute that to your personal identity. Billions of Chinese were lifted from poverty by American globalization, granted at the detriment of American jobs. However it f…

"He could pay them $0/hr by not giving them the jobs." I've always found that to be the absolute shittiest of rebuttals, given by those who have absolutely no point whatsoever. This person is not "giving" anyone a job; they are not being seeing a group of people and saying, "Hmmm, they look like they could use some work. I will create some and give it to them." No. This person needed some work done, and they were off…

If you ever run a company you'll know that job creators exist.

I had a bunch of money. I could have kept it locked in a box somewhere. Instead I decided to pay a bunch of people to help make something cool. Yes, that's a transaction, but for my part, I didn't have to engage in it. (In fact some days I kind of regret it, given all the garbage one has to put up with when running a company.) I could have kept the money locked in a box and felt happy that I feel rich. Or something.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#70

Post by throwaway0628 »

fown9 wrote: post #58

China has an authoritarian government that * is ruled by a secretive group of old men [1] * produces pollution that threatens the entire world [2] * uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries like github [3] * ignores human rights and free speech [4] * creates artificial military island near neighboring countries [5] * supports dictators in Russia and Africa [6] * and prints up to 282% of GDP…

You can say much the same about the US (swap Russia and Africa for South America and Middle East).

Besides, it's the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons on civilians.

All super powers are threatening.

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