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U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

fortune.com

11–20 of 172 posts

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#11

At what scale? I pay roughly $3/hr for welding in china.

And you feel pride? Seriously, 3$/h? Assumming that a large junk goes to the shop owner, that's not a lot to make each month.

What are you exactly suggesting everyone do? He could pay them $0/hr by not giving them the jobs.

You're not offering any constructive feedback while criticizing from your pedestal of inaction. I assume you used a throwaway because you didn't want to attribute that to your personal identity.

Billions of Chinese were lifted from poverty by American globalization, granted at the detriment of American jobs. However it forced American jobs to be more information focused. And if you're Chinese you should understand that. If you're American you can be proud you helped lift a country from the third world into the second.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you feel pride? Seriously, 3$/h? Assumming that a large junk goes to the shop owner, that's not a lot to make each month.

You are assuming cost of living is the same in both places, which it isn't.

Speaking from a Chinese perspective, $3/hr in China today is still very low. That's like 3000 RMB for a 9-5 blue collar (which doesn't really happen as many workers work between 12-16 hours a day). But there are just so many expenses you cannot avoid while living in China as a Chinese... $3000 - $5000 is barely enough.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#13
For some industries the USA is and has for some time been a bit lower cost for manufacturing than China. Labor costs are only part of the equation- you also have to take into account transportation costs, energy costs, costs of obtaining capital, etc. all weighed against political, scheduling, and quality risks. For my own industry (specialty machine vision systems) outsourcing to China is almost not worth the trouble.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#14

At what scale? I pay roughly $3/hr for welding in china.

Labor is only 5% of the total manufacturing cost. Even if you pay $0/hr in china, the (lack of) cost of transportation + low price of oil/gas due to fracking makes the total cost lower. Though it seems to be true for energy intensive heavy industries ("energy intensive industries such as steel, aluminum, paper and petrochemicals"), not sure it works for low skilled commodity or labor intensive industries.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#15

At what scale? I pay roughly $3/hr for welding in china.

Looks like they're talking about more energy costs & also productivity advances relative to other countries.

This means more that cost of inputs (materials, transport of them, etc.) for hardware will go down in the US, while at the same time companies are getting more efficient per worker - reducing our exposure to foreign cheap labor.

Re: Welding - We're actually seeing a lot of advances in automated welding setup, etc. that will allow robots in the US to compete with Chinese welders.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually the opposite: We're great at speciality, high-tech stuff, but we don't do commodity contract manufacturing as well as China. The good part of this is that the former has far better margins than the latter.

So you are only cheaper on expensive stuff.

Better != Cheaper - We're able to make more profitable manufacturing companies, by cost or performance.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you feel pride? Seriously, 3$/h? Assumming that a large junk goes to the shop owner, that's not a lot to make each month.

What are you exactly suggesting everyone do? He could pay them $0/hr by not giving them the jobs. You're not offering any constructive feedback while criticizing from your pedestal of inaction. I assume you used a throwaway because you didn't want to attribute that to your personal identity. Billions of Chinese were lifted from poverty by American globalization, granted at the detriment of American jobs. However it f…

I am neither US nor chinese but I know that 3$/h is not a rate I wish anyone these days. Anywhere. Simple, eh?

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#18
post #2

I think at this point US simply has no specialized factories to manufacture things.

It's actually the opposite: We're great at speciality, high-tech stuff, but we don't do commodity contract manufacturing as well as China. The good part of this is that the former has far better margins than the latter.

Someone explained the attraction of China with the complete supply chain. If you need 1k speciality screws now, you can order them from the screw factory next door and have them ready in no time.

Re: U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s

#20
There are always two camps of people in this debate. One camp says the medical expense and overhead dealing with regulations and union are too costly to operate manufacturing entirely in the US. There is another camp that says the cost operating oversea (training staff, relocating senior staff oversea, legal and book keeping management) is close to operating in the US.

Fact is many companies are now moving away from China, and are signing up new manufacturing sites in other Southern Asian countries such as Thailand and Vietnam for lower operational cost (note a lot of the U.S. companies give contract to oversea manufacturer, so it is these manufactures moving away from their own domestic sites - for example, Foxconn being a largely a Taiwanese company Foxconn manufactures outside of Taiwan).

I don't know how close operating in the US vs operating half of the business offshore is. This is like hiring consultant oversea for software development. The first burden is operational efficiency; it is painful to manage oversea when you want your "brain power" to be in the US. For example, project manager might have to get up early say 6-7 AM to do a stand up and then follow up at 9/10AM (because your business owner / product owner don't get up at 6 to talk about progress). If there are bugs that need to be resolved during US hour, you still have to pay the extra hours. You are wasting time going-back-and-forth because your offshore team will get off work when you want to fit a meeting in the afternoon.

While most Chinese workers do not form union (fear of repucation), workers do come out and protest from time to time (see Foxcoon strikes). Local laws also do not often favor US companies, and local laws can be a pain in the ass.

The only thing I can think of that will keep some companies manufacturing outside of the U.S. is that these companies simply do not have cash in the US. Imagine a company like Apple (Apple has like 90% of its cash outside of US) the only way they can spend that money is do stuff outside of US.

This is just my uneducated opinion, having little idea how business and economy works. I am all for moving closer to proximity. If you are selling in the U.S. it makes sense to manufacture her. This is why many manufacture sites are now built in Mexico (looking at car makers). Shipping cost have been reduced in the last two decades because now we have bigger ships, but still, there is a schedule that you need to maintain.

Another classic example where some part of "making" are likely done domestic (or a place where known for using advanced technology) is the classic X ThinkPad series. The agreement Lenovo have with IBM is that the main design is to remain in a Japanese lab AFAIK. I am sure Lenovo has way to do stuff in China and do stuff in Japan, and still claim stuff are done in Japan. But branding is a good motivation for keeping certain things local.

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