Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
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Re: Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
#2If this effect was large, wouldn't we have spotted it by now?
Doctors prescribe antibiotics for nearly anything nowadays. Along the antibiotic, you will get some sort of probiotic (selected strains of bacteria), not to mention all the yogurt and similar products we're eating. Millions of people around the world do it every year. At least some will correctly follow instructions, finish the round of antibiotic, and take the supplement for a while longer.
Essentially, we blast and replace bacteria in our guts all the time in a massive natural experiment. Yet I haven't seen any life-changing results.
Re: Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
#3If this effect was large, wouldn't we have spotted it by now? Doctors prescribe antibiotics for nearly anything nowadays. Along the antibiotic, you will get some sort of probiotic (selected strains of bacteria), not to mention all the yogurt and similar products we're eating. Millions of people around the world do it every year. At least some will correctly follow instructions, finish the round of antibiotic, and tak…
It doesn't sound like a plausible mechanism when you first hear it, and so it doesn't get much research.
It's not that long ago that we found gut flora that helps cause some obesity; and other gut flora that helps cause normal weight.
Re: Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
#4If this effect was large, wouldn't we have spotted it by now? Doctors prescribe antibiotics for nearly anything nowadays. Along the antibiotic, you will get some sort of probiotic (selected strains of bacteria), not to mention all the yogurt and similar products we're eating. Millions of people around the world do it every year. At least some will correctly follow instructions, finish the round of antibiotic, and tak…
It doesn't sound like a plausible mechanism when you first hear it, and so it doesn't get much research. It's not that long ago that we found gut flora that helps cause some obesity; and other gut flora that helps cause normal weight.
My point is that you wouldn't need research if the effect was large.
If depressed people stopped acting depressed after having a minor infection (treated with antibiotics), they would notice. Their families would notice. Just like people figured out that quarantine works long before we had the germ theory, and without knowing any statistics.
Re: Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
#5If this effect was large, wouldn't we have spotted it by now? Doctors prescribe antibiotics for nearly anything nowadays. Along the antibiotic, you will get some sort of probiotic (selected strains of bacteria), not to mention all the yogurt and similar products we're eating. Millions of people around the world do it every year. At least some will correctly follow instructions, finish the round of antibiotic, and tak…
> Yet I haven't seen any life-changing results.
Not trying to be a smartass, but "not seeing something" is not really a convincing argument if you have never looked for it before. Especially here, given that there is no obvious feedback loop to give us hints at the relation between the gut flora and our mood. (are you aware of changes in your digestive chemistry and gut flora? How would you connect that to emotional changes then?)
But as for evidence: there was that one time during a double blind research trial of a certain experimental probiotic treatment of cancer where the researchers could tell who was in the control group and who wasn't, because the people who got the probiotic treatment were much happier (I saw this mentioned in a New Scientist article on gut bacteria from around 2011 - can't get to it now because it's behind a paywall).
Also, the article specifically addresses this:
> ‘‘Dr. Lyte,’’ he later asked at a question-and-answer session, ‘‘if what you’re saying is right, then why is it when we give antibiotics to patients to kill bacteria, they are not running around crazy on the wards?’’
Re: Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
#6If this effect was large, wouldn't we have spotted it by now? Doctors prescribe antibiotics for nearly anything nowadays. Along the antibiotic, you will get some sort of probiotic (selected strains of bacteria), not to mention all the yogurt and similar products we're eating. Millions of people around the world do it every year. At least some will correctly follow instructions, finish the round of antibiotic, and tak…
> Yet I haven't seen any life-changing results. Not trying to be a smartass, but "not seeing something" is not really a convincing argument if you have never looked for it before. Especially here, given that there is no obvious feedback loop to give us hints at the relation between the gut flora and our mood. (are you aware of changes in your digestive chemistry and gut flora? How would you connect that to emotional…
It's presented as a dismissive question with no answer. But with the number and amount of antibiotics prescribed, wouldn't you expect a lot of curious, seemingly miraculous changes by accident?
You know when you take antibiotics. You have a clear time frame, and the event is unusual enough that it should stand out.
Re: Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
#7The problem with this emerging theory about bacteria in the Gut modulating mood, obesity, etc. is very hard to be proved in an absolute way. The number of bacteria's in the gut is extremely high. I think we need much more research on the topic to be absolutely sure we know what we're talking about.
There is a growing awareness about probiotics, but most of the studies I read are not convincing enough, as of today.
Re: Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
#8The problem with this emerging theory about bacteria in the Gut modulating mood, obesity, etc. is very hard to be proved in an absolute way. The number of bacteria's in the gut is extremely high. I think we need much more research on the topic to be absolutely sure we know what we're talking about. There is a growing awareness about probiotics, but most of the studies I read are not convincing enough, as of today.
It's tricky for mood because you use self-reported descriptions of mood.
But for obesity it's not that hard.
Here's one for anorexia and bulemia. http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n10/full/tp201498a.html
(my description might be wrong) They start with a prediction; they modify mice and show that prediction is true; they then find human samples (staff and patients at an inpatient ED unit) and they find the staff don't have the particular gut flora while patients do. It's going to be really hard to get ethical approval to give the gut flora to healthy people - to give those people anorexia, so there is a missing step.
Re: Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
#9This reminds me of the cases where a course of antibiotics for something unrelated cured chronic back pain.
http://www.naturalnews.com/040354_chronic_back_pain_antibiot...
It also reminds me of Russian "phages" bacterial concoctions as cures for certain illnesses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy
Re: Can the Bacteria in Your Gut Explain Your Mood?
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't sound like a plausible mechanism when you first hear it, and so it doesn't get much research. It's not that long ago that we found gut flora that helps cause some obesity; and other gut flora that helps cause normal weight.
My point is that you wouldn't need research if the effect was large. If depressed people stopped acting depressed after having a minor infection (treated with antibiotics), they would notice. Their families would notice. Just like people figured out that quarantine works long before we had the germ theory, and without knowing any statistics.
It took decades to recognize the link between stomach ulcers and bacteria and begin treating ulcers with antibiotics, and that's a lot easier to quantify than mood.