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The media in Singapore: Zip It

economist.com

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Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#21

Post by Fajita_Mane »

crdb wrote: post #16

For background on the Amos Yee case and to put things in perspective: - The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences. They have been relatively successful in my experience, especially compared to some neighbours who have overtly racist government polic…

>The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences.

It has more to do with controlling public discourse than ensuring racial harmony. Despite Singapore's best efforts to forcibly integrate immigrants (i.e. racial quotas on public housing blocks) Sg has a race problem. They had their first race riot since the 60s last year. It was incited by a Chinese truck driver injuring an Indian laborer in the relatively impoverished Indian district of the city. The coverage from the Strait Times might be interesting to you: http://www.straitstimes.com/little-india-riot

>Both were, nevertheless, the law, and he broke both repeatedly, including breaking bail. No one is disputing whether Amos broke the law. It's more of a question of whether the laws are intended to keep people safe or control public opinion. Everyone knows about the libel prosecution of political threats, but the PAP's crusade of information control goes far beyond that. Protests are essentially illegal. Dissent is illegal. When I studied at NUS for a semester, I was forced to sign a waiver going through customs that stated, along with many other conditions, that I wouldn't criticize the government in any way, online or off. Singapore is an extremely thoroughly policed country, and riots are just not an acceptable excuse for draconian policy.

>By the way, congratulations on the first HN Singapore thread that does not mention chewing gum! inb4 someone excuses the human rights violations by fawning over how excellent their metro system is. weev went into my Twitter mentions to do this once.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#22

Post by dang »

crdb wrote: post #16

For background on the Amos Yee case and to put things in perspective: - The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences. They have been relatively successful in my experience, especially compared to some neighbours who have overtly racist government polic…

> But wanted to add some perspective before the sharks circle. By the way, congratulations on the first HN Singapore thread that does not mention chewing gum!

Please don't be gratuitously provocative in comments here. Nothing good can come of it, and it goes against the values of this site, civility and substantiveness.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#24

Post by dang »

hackerboos wrote: post #6
Cyph0n wrote: post #2

Quite the neutral title. We now understand your disdain for Singapore. The punishment is definitely harsh. It is well-known that Singapore has quite the dictatorial side to it, but it is a fantastic country when you look at where it was only 40 years ago. A country with the total area of a city with absolutely no natural resources, no official language, and a large variety of ethnicities i.e. not homogenous like say…

Title has now been edited.

Yes, a moderator reverted it to the article title.

The submitted title ("'Modern' Singapore to 're-educate' blogger") was badly in violation of HN's rules. Accounts that do that kind of thing eventually lose story submission privileges.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#25

Post by accurrent »

jessaustin wrote: post #5
Cyph0n wrote: post #2

Quite the neutral title. We now understand your disdain for Singapore. The punishment is definitely harsh. It is well-known that Singapore has quite the dictatorial side to it, but it is a fantastic country when you look at where it was only 40 years ago. A country with the total area of a city with absolutely no natural resources, no official language, and a large variety of ethnicities i.e. not homogenous like say…

"Sacrifice" is sort of ambiguous, isn't it? LHL working late a few evenings would be one thing, but his government locking this kid up for years, for a cartoon, is another. He's 16 though, so I wonder whether that would meet his obligation for compulsory service? It would be a real bummer to come out of two years of reeducation camp, and then have to do two more years of essentially the same thing.

There is no escape from military service here... he will have to serve after he comes out from jail.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#26

Post by crdb »

dang wrote: post #22
crdb wrote: post #16

For background on the Amos Yee case and to put things in perspective: - The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences. They have been relatively successful in my experience, especially compared to some neighbours who have overtly racist government polic…

> But wanted to add some perspective before the sharks circle. By the way, congratulations on the first HN Singapore thread that does not mention chewing gum! Please don't be gratuitously provocative in comments here. Nothing good can come of it, and it goes against the values of this site, civility and substantiveness.

Apologies. In this case though, both lines were said in a slightly humorous, rather than provocative tone. It is a trope that any article on Singapore must automatically include both the chewing gum ban and some discussion about the death penalty for importing drugs, usually in the first paragraph, despite them usually not being relevant to the conversation...

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#27

Post by crdb »

Fajita_Mane wrote: post #21
crdb wrote: post #16

For background on the Amos Yee case and to put things in perspective: - The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences. They have been relatively successful in my experience, especially compared to some neighbours who have overtly racist government polic…

>The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences. It has more to do with controlling public discourse than ensuring racial harmony. Despite Singapore's best efforts to forcibly integrate immigrants (i.e. racial quotas on public housing blocks) Sg has a ra…

This is not at all how I understood the riots. Roughly: a bus driver arrived in an area where people were partying in the street, and refused to let in a very intoxicated fellow. This fellow somehow ended up in front of the bus (I think he decided to lie there) and got run over by the driver (I doubt intentionally). As is customary in the country of origin of said partying folks, the crowd got angry and "defended" its own. Within two hours, the police had restored peace.

After examining the situation, the government decided to make street drinking illegal in the area during the hours where further flash mobs were likely, and restricted alcohol sales island-wide during night hours (10.30pm - 7.30am).

Now, the suspects happened to be one race and the driver another, but people weren't protesting for racial reasons, it was a drunk crowd flashing up after it got sparked that happened to be mostly from a couple countries.

This is in stark contrast to, say, the 1964 race riots and similar riots around the region at that time against the Straits Chinese in Indonesia and Malaysia, or more recently, Ferguson in the US, which were explicitly about race. I suspect that the context of the Singapore riots was then lost on journalists who couldn't resist fitting them into their more common narrative of race or class based protest.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#28

Post by dang »

crdb wrote: post #26
dang wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But wanted to add some perspective before the sharks circle. By the way, congratulations on the first HN Singapore thread that does not mention chewing gum! Please don't be gratuitously provocative in comments here. Nothing good can come of it, and it goes against the values of this site, civility and substantiveness.

Apologies. In this case though, both lines were said in a slightly humorous, rather than provocative tone. It is a trope that any article on Singapore must automatically include both the chewing gum ban and some discussion about the death penalty for importing drugs, usually in the first paragraph, despite them usually not being relevant to the conversation...

> both lines were said in a slightly humorous, rather than provocative tone

I don't doubt you, but readers can't know that, and there have been flamewars in the past about this. Typically the "slightly humorous" gets lost and the provocation (e.g. "sharks") remains.

> It is a trope that any article on Singapore must automatically include

I assume most everyone knows this. But it doesn't seem fair to criticize others for "tropes" when you were the one bringing them up.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#29

Post by jessaustin »

accurrent wrote: post #25
jessaustin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sacrifice" is sort of ambiguous, isn't it? LHL working late a few evenings would be one thing, but his government locking this kid up for years, for a cartoon, is another. He's 16 though, so I wonder whether that would meet his obligation for compulsory service? It would be a real bummer to come out of two years of reeducation camp, and then have to do two more years of essentially the same thing.

There is no escape from military service here... he will have to serve after he comes out from jail.

I've known people who just emigrated. Amos might consider that, because there's no way the military will be the career launchpad for him that it is for the Singaporean elite.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#30

Post by cdf »

Fajita_Mane wrote: post #21
crdb wrote: post #16

For background on the Amos Yee case and to put things in perspective: - The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences. They have been relatively successful in my experience, especially compared to some neighbours who have overtly racist government polic…

>The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences. It has more to do with controlling public discourse than ensuring racial harmony. Despite Singapore's best efforts to forcibly integrate immigrants (i.e. racial quotas on public housing blocks) Sg has a ra…

You may want to read the link you cited. Also, Little India is not impoverished. It just looks so to a casual tourist. The fact is rent in Singapore is substantially driven by their accessibility to Little India.
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