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The media in Singapore: Zip It

economist.com

11–20 of 39 posts

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#11
It will get worse for people given they are a top surveillance state that's deployed NSA-inspired tech widely. The people I know over there work hard to maintain a semblance of privacy to share their views. It's still not as bad as a lot of places, though. One of the things strengthening the government's power in these cases is that they tell me Singaporean culture embraces government as a caretaker of sorts. Comes with good and bad.

Most are more likely to be hurt by employers that exploit the heck out of them. I commonly hear about people working long shifts for next to no pay with overtime expected. Labor violations go overlooked by authorities too often. Kind of like the American situation pre-regulations and lawsuits. Hope their situation gets a bit better overtime as it did in some countries.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#12
post #2

Quite the neutral title. We now understand your disdain for Singapore. The punishment is definitely harsh. It is well-known that Singapore has quite the dictatorial side to it, but it is a fantastic country when you look at where it was only 40 years ago. A country with the total area of a city with absolutely no natural resources, no official language, and a large variety of ethnicities i.e. not homogenous like say…

>no natural resources

The port was considerably more valuable than any natural resources they could have had, and was tapped as the 'seed capital' used to build the country.

Without it, they probably would still be as poor as they were in 1950.

The 'we built this with nothing but our bare hands' canard is useful, though, for domestic propaganda.

>It took a lot of sacrifice to get it where it is today.

It mainly just took sensible economic planning and a willingness to share the wealth on the part of the leadership from the 1960s onward.

The economic planning part - currency suppression via the purchase of US treasuries, investment in education and subsidies of key industries has been played out by other Asian tigers - Taiwan, South Korea, Japan and China.

The interesting part is where the willingness to share the wealth came from in the 60s.

In the 50s and 60s there was a sense of threat verging on outright panic among the country's elite about certain domestic political opponents. A threat which, not coincidentally, the elite of the United States also felt very strongly in the 1950s-60s from similar domestic opponents.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#13

What a show of recalcitrance. You could probably bring up this issue in conversation and use it as a free speech litmus test. I am reminded of this comment [ http://lesswrong.com/lw/kat/the_benefits_of_closedmindedness... ]: 2-26% of Americans thinks gay people should not be allowed to speak 3-36% of Americans think that atheists like me (& 79.2% of LW) are better seen than heard 7-49% think militarists should shut u…

Surely those aren't confidence intervals coming from a place like lesswrong. (also "16-75%"? Seriously?)

The 16 and 75 were different people (the top 20% and bottom 12% of scorers on a vocabulary quiz that was included in the survey).

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#14
post #2

Quite the neutral title. We now understand your disdain for Singapore. The punishment is definitely harsh. It is well-known that Singapore has quite the dictatorial side to it, but it is a fantastic country when you look at where it was only 40 years ago. A country with the total area of a city with absolutely no natural resources, no official language, and a large variety of ethnicities i.e. not homogenous like say…

>no natural resources The port was considerably more valuable than any natural resources they could have had, and was tapped as the 'seed capital' used to build the country. Without it, they probably would still be as poor as they were in 1950. The 'we built this with nothing but our bare hands' canard is useful, though, for domestic propaganda. >It took a lot of sacrifice to get it where it is today. It mainly just…

Yes, I was aware of the port, but I didn't think it had such a great impact. I also read in a great book about the rise of the shipping container that Singapore was one of the first countries in the world to fully adapt to it. Perhaps this contributed as well to the port. In any case, it still is an accomplishment given that this was basically their only resource to get the country to where it is today. We cannot deny that the excellent leadership and understanding citizens are what made this possible.

Thanks for your other points. It's always great to learn new things about Singapore. I'm hoping to somehow use their experience to help bring my country (Tunisia) to the forefront of the region.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#16
For background on the Amos Yee case and to put things in perspective:

- The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences. They have been relatively successful in my experience, especially compared to some neighbours who have overtly racist government policies; amongst other things, Singapore has not known a race riot since the 1960s.

- The laws against obscenity are a holdover from the British period which (like 377A, which is almost never enforced today - edit, seems Section 377 was repealed in 2007 according to Singapore Law Watch, as per link below! I never heard of this before) will probably gradually disappear as the country becomes a little less socially conservative and people stop putting pressure on their representative not to strike them off (as happened in the USA, where it took until 2015 for gay marriage to become legal).

Both were, nevertheless, the law, and he broke both repeatedly, including breaking bail. This is kind of like being a Colorado resident (where weed is legal afaik) and bringing a large bag of legally bought weed over to any number of particularly harsh penalty countries (Singapore included), then complaining when you're put in jail or even on death row due to local law, arguing that weed is a victimless crime and the punishment is disproportionate. Also worth noting that it was his own mother who first brought him to the Institute of Mental Health, not the authorities, but this is of course not mentioned by the Economist which is happy to resume the long standing feud it has with Singaporean authorities by diluting the quality of its usually high journalistic standards.

The charge against insulting LKY has been deferred to a later trial once the other two charges have been resolved. I suspect it was put on because the nation was grieving and the insult was particularly badly timed. Remember about a quarter of the population turned up for the funeral (and I lonely expat here for three years also did), because most have seen the country literally go "from third world to first" in the space of a couple generations. It is impossible for foreigners - particularly those whose country's independence and economic success is centuries old, or whose founders did not have quite the same results - to understand the esteem (and frankly, love) in which LKY is held locally. I would reserve judgement until the court decision.

Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amos_Yee appears quite detailed and well written. Some background on Section 292: http://www.singaporelawwatch.sg/slw/attachments/64631/Penal%...

I'm not taking sides, frankly I couldn't care less about the case. But wanted to add some perspective before the sharks circle. By the way, congratulations on the first HN Singapore thread that does not mention chewing gum!

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#17
post #2

Quite the neutral title. We now understand your disdain for Singapore. The punishment is definitely harsh. It is well-known that Singapore has quite the dictatorial side to it, but it is a fantastic country when you look at where it was only 40 years ago. A country with the total area of a city with absolutely no natural resources, no official language, and a large variety of ethnicities i.e. not homogenous like say…

>no natural resources The port was considerably more valuable than any natural resources they could have had, and was tapped as the 'seed capital' used to build the country. Without it, they probably would still be as poor as they were in 1950. The 'we built this with nothing but our bare hands' canard is useful, though, for domestic propaganda. >It took a lot of sacrifice to get it where it is today. It mainly just…

'we built this with nothing but our bare hands' is more than just propaganda. sure, they had a sea port, but looking at what they have done is amazing. many countries have some advantage, but most do not use them properly. Malaysia is a bridge crossing away with just as much sea access and ample amounts of oil and other natural resources, yet I do not believe they have accomplished what singapore has done.

taiwan, south korea, china, and japan are bad examples to compare to singapore, though Japan in the meiji restoration was at least somewhat comparable except that all of the countries you mentioned relied on heavy industry to get to where they were, where as singapore had no land for such heavy investment in industry - let alone the materials.

singapore had to make a long series of specific-successful long term investments which played out very well, and that had little to do with wealth sharing. one of the things that made everything play out so well is the singaporean's culture of kiasu - afraid to lose. singaporeans are very determined and trying to get ahead rather than sharing wealth.

it was always easy for singapore to guide the ship with everyone in the same direction because people obeyed so much to economic incentives. the only thing it really failed at was getting singaporeans to have kids recently.

Re: The media in Singapore: Zip It

#20
post #16

For background on the Amos Yee case and to put things in perspective: - The laws against insulting religions are part of a wider system to allow for smooth integration in a region that has known genocide and riots as the traditional means of resolving racial and religious differences. They have been relatively successful in my experience, especially compared to some neighbours who have overtly racist government polic…

By the way, congratulations on the first HN Singapore thread that does not mention chewing gum!

This is why we can't have nice things.

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