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Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

nytimes.com

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Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#71

Post by xaybey »

arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

I understand not drinking and not playing video games, but saying that you have no hobbies would be pretty weird in an interview. They're just trying to get to know you. Hopefully you follow it up with some personal detail that distinguishes you from a robot.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#72

Post by jrs235 »

notNow wrote: post #58
arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

May I ask what's your objection to drinking beer? The reason I ask because some people abstain for religious reasons and I seriously don't relish the company of fundie folks around me because from experience over time they won't settle for exercising just their own rights but till they impose or restrict other people's rights or make them at least feel very uncomfortable in the workplace.

I think the objection can also be from the group... Candidate doesn't drink beer [ADD: or care about craft beer], we don't think we'll get along so don't hire them.

ADD: Which is a ridiculous reason to give a group to reject a candidate. Please see my idea pertaining to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9760639

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#73

Post by harperlee »

nileshtrivedi wrote: post #4
DevPad wrote: post #2

How about remote teams? At previous startup we had guys from: Germany, Russia, US, Romania, Brasil, Ukraine, Philippines. Our "cultural fit" was just about: Be a Hacker (innovative, open-minded).

And be able to communicate well in a shared language - most likely English.

Good point. Not knowing english well enough is a good technical barrier. I've been working on a project in english for the past two months, and although I speak and write sufficiently good and fluently, I still see a huge distance in front of me. I can't think, express and discuss so easily. It's like I've slept badly for some days. It's frustratingly. And it takes time to overcome, so any test period that you have with a candidate won't be enough for that to be overcome (not that I propose hiring people for a couple of years to see whether their english levels improve, mind you)

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#74

Post by waterlesscloud »

xaybey wrote: post #71
arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

I understand not drinking and not playing video games, but saying that you have no hobbies would be pretty weird in an interview. They're just trying to get to know you. Hopefully you follow it up with some personal detail that distinguishes you from a robot.

"Hopefully you follow it up with some personal detail that distinguishes you from a robot."

He mentioned having a family. That pretty much means he's not a robot.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#75

Post by rev_bird »

dvirsky wrote: post #36

I think the key is to define within the company, what the cultural values are, and then talk about how to check if a person is aligned with them or not. At the company I work for, we value creativity, independence and taking ownership and responsibility of one's work. It sounds generic but it's not - people who like structured workplaces and process, just wither and don't succeed. So we try to assess that in intervie…

This strikes me as striving for "cultural fit" at a company that actually knows what its culture is, or at least what it wants its culture to be. That could genuinely help -- but the actual list seems like the important part. Without the list, it's just finding somebody everyone wants to be friends with.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#76

Post by earljwagner »

EliRivers wrote: post #15
earljwagner wrote: post #11

I think of my work in terms of seeing unexplored areas to go with software (e.g. support self-insight or personal growth). I prefer to work with people having a similar perspective and aesthetic sensibility. A lot of the examples in this article seemed absurd to me - fit or misfit because of your preferred sports teams? As a Myers-Briggs "intuitive", maybe I "fit" with people having a similar outlook and values, whil…

When interviewing, one of things I deliberately look for is people who are not like the current team. People who are not a "cultural fit", whatever that even means. I need people with different ideas, different experience; people who will approach the problems in a different way, fill in the blind spots and vulnerabilities the current team has. There's a trade-off to be made, sure, but professional adults can work to…

What dimensions of difference do you look for?

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#77

Post by IvyMike »

arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

It's tough on an interview to get a feel for how a person is in day-to-day conversation. So the interviewers are looking for areas of common interest to talk about. If they are young, they may have a limited repertoire of topics that usually work; if you shut down all of their ideas for conversation, I hope you at least tried to come up with some topics of your own. Otherwise, you won't have a conversation, and they won't get a feel for you, and that's a bad thing.

I don't know if you've ever actually said "I don't have hobbies" in an interview, but that could likely come off as negative. Your hobbies are your kids, or your house, or reading, or cooking, or watching TV, or whatever you do with your time at home. And all of those are at least something that might start a conversation, which is the whole point. Hell, even saying "I used to play PC games, here are the classics I liked" could be a conversation starter.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#78

Post by arenaninja »

ovi256 wrote: post #47
arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

Talking about a hobby as if you still do it, in order to get the job and provide for your family, is not a lie anyone sane would say matters. Next time, don't sweat it.

Thanks. I'm aware it's always an option, but I've been lucky so far to never be in a position where I need that job.

The greater implication of my post, IMO, is that as I age I'm more experienced but less attractive to some employers solely based on my age. I already look about five years older than I am, so perhaps my career will be much more short-lived than I anticipate and I will have no say in it. That actually terrifies me.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#79

Post by jrs235 »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #74
xaybey wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand not drinking and not playing video games, but saying that you have no hobbies would be pretty weird in an interview. They're just trying to get to know you. Hopefully you follow it up with some personal detail that distinguishes you from a robot.

"Hopefully you follow it up with some personal detail that distinguishes you from a robot." He mentioned having a family. That pretty much means he's not a robot.

Which an employer may not want to ask for or know about since family status is a protected class in some jurisdictions.

"On May 11, 2014, Governor Mark Dayton signed the Women’s Economic Security Act (WESA), which amended the prohibitions against employment discrimination in the Minnesota Human Rights Act (MHRA). Now, discrimination based on “familial status” in hiring, promotion, retention and other employment decisions is illegal in Minnesota." [1]

[1] http://mn.gov/mdhr/employers/familial_status.html

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#80

Post by hyperpape »

skrebbel wrote: post #52
ovi256 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about a hobby as if you still do it, in order to get the job and provide for your family, is not a lie anyone sane would say matters. Next time, don't sweat it.

Seriously? You'd take a job that requires that you lie about your personal life?

I wouldn't defend hiring based on hobbies, but it's pretty easy to make a comment like "I really like X, but these days I mostly do stuff with my family..." and it's a lot more human sounding than "I have no hobbies."
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