Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules • Hacker News Board

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#171

Post by fweespeech » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:08 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #46

fweespeech wrote: post #12

Yeah, I'm still slightly pissed they basically waited until the majority was clear before they'd rule on the matter. Its another clear sign our Judiciary is really just as political as the politicians are, even if no one says so openly. > As late as October, the justices ducked the issue, refusing to hear appeals from rulings allowing same-sex marriage in five states. That decision delivered a tacit victory for gay r…

> Yeah, I'm still slightly pissed they basically waited until the majority was clear before they'd rule on the matter. Its another clear sign our Judiciary is really just as political as the politicians are, even if no one says so openly. I'm a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I'm glad the Court waited until the consensus was clear. At bottom, this isn't a right flowing from the dictates of the Constitution. Nob…

> Nobody in 1789 would have said that gay marriage is a fundamental right.

Its marriage. Its a fundamental right.

It doesn't matter if you are gay or straight.

> It is important that the Court not act ahead of society.

That is another way of saying "Yes, the judicial system is as political as politicians."

One of the primary purposes of the Court is to make sure the political majority can't deny equal rights to everyone in the country. The idea they have to wait for that political majority to exist before "giving people" rights is an awful idea.

> I'm also a strong supporter of abortion rights, but I can't help but wonder if in the long run abortion rights wouldn't be in a stronger position today had the Court waited a bit longer for public consensus to catch up before dictating a result.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade#/media/File:Roevwa... http://www.gallup.com/poll/160058/majority-americans-support...

They did wait for a majority before Roe v. Wade as well. :/

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#172

Post by baddox » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:09 PM UTC

smackfu wrote: post #161

baddox wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Or indeed, on the fundamental issue, which is the need to get permission from a tiny group of powerful people in order to get married.

...get permission from a tiny group of powerful people in order to get the government to recognize your marriage .

These people are part of government, so that's roughly equivalent. Different parts of government disagree about the details, but it appears they all agree that the government should get to decide who can get married.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#173

Post by jedberg » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:09 PM UTC

jayess wrote: post #148

My partner and I are discussing getting married, but the federal income tax "marriage penalty" is giving us serious pause.

Getting married was the worst thing I ever did for my taxes.

That being said, it has a lot of other benefits that outweigh the cost.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#174

Post by totalcookie » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:09 PM UTC

dublinben wrote: post #147

samatman wrote: post #121

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated. Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question b…

Polygamy is a deeply troublesome arrangement, with a storied history of abuse. It has been steadily abandoned and outlawed as societies grant more legal rights and self-determination to women. There is simply no way to legally recognize poly* relationships under the law in a way that resembles binary marriage.

Replace Polygamy in your comment with marriage and see what happens:

Marriage is a deeply troublesome arrangement, with a storied history of abuse.

Yes, there is probably more abuse in marriages then outside, but this is not an argument against marriage, but against abuse.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#175

Post by probablycorey » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:09 PM UTC

slayed0 wrote: post #16

Great news. Glad this won't be an issue going into the next presidential election. There's been so much time wasted on this issue when, at the end of the day, any 2 consenting adults should have all of the same rights as any other 2 consenting adults (barring felony conviction, poor mental health eval, etc).

> Glad this won't be an issue going into the next presidential election.

I wish this was true. But I think the decision will increase the discussion of marriage equality in the next election. Just look at the political impact abortion had after the supreme court decided Roe v. Wade. Abortion was used to galvanize conservative votes against liberals and SCOTUS.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#176

Post by vidarh » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:09 PM UTC

talmand wrote: post #34

slayed0 wrote: post #16

Great news. Glad this won't be an issue going into the next presidential election. There's been so much time wasted on this issue when, at the end of the day, any 2 consenting adults should have all of the same rights as any other 2 consenting adults (barring felony conviction, poor mental health eval, etc).

I agree, I'm tired of hearing about this topic and the time wasted on it. Although, I'm waiting for the 3 consenting adults lawsuit, that will be interesting. EDIT: since the world is full of reactionaries that love to take things out of context; my public disclaimer on this is that I have no issue with this ruling.

Though sometimes it can be entertaining. In the UK the debate included one lord embarrassing himself by "warning" that gay marriage might lead to a lesbian queen giving birth to a future monarch through artificial insemination, as well as musing about how it could allow said lord to marry his son to escape inheritance tax [1]

I'm already looking forward to reading some of the tripe that will be written about this SCOTUS decision...

[1] http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/may/21/tebbit-gay-ma...

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#177

Post by Jimmy » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:10 PM UTC

dublinben wrote: post #147

samatman wrote: post #121

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated. Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question b…

Polygamy is a deeply troublesome arrangement, with a storied history of abuse. It has been steadily abandoned and outlawed as societies grant more legal rights and self-determination to women. There is simply no way to legally recognize poly* relationships under the law in a way that resembles binary marriage.

"Polygamy will further the deterioration of society!" "Polygamy has a history of abuse!"

And where have we heard precisely these arguments before?

People are great.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#178

Post by k__ » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:10 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #121

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated. Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question b…

I'm poly and I'm more for abandoning marriage-laws all together and keep this stuff to religions.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#179

Post by s_kilk » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:10 PM UTC

tosseraccount wrote: post #5

If love is about ignoring race,class,gender,age shouldn't it be about ignoring numbers, too? Polygamy is the next hurdle for society. The judges should declare all consenting marriage legal !

I think I prefer the term 'polyamorous', but agreed :)

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#180

Post by IanDrake » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 3:10 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #121

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated. Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question b…

I have no problem with polygamy, as long as it is a consensual relationship between all adults involved.

The real problem is that government has gotten into the marriage business and it doesn't belong there. The issues you mentioned (child custody, hospital visitation, inheritance rights) really have nothing to do with marriage and should all be assignable without a government endorsed marital contract.