Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

toucharcade.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 226 posts

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#161

Post by k-mcgrady »

WildUtah wrote: post #146
k-mcgrady wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently so. It's interesting to watch though. Both my posts, while perfectly reasonable opposite viewpoints are getting down voted a lot. HN feels like reddit when you touch a nerve on freedom of speech. Crowd mentality/emotion seems to take over even in a group that is usually very logical and rational.

"while perfectly reasonable opposite viewpoints are getting down voted a lot. " Everyone else is discussing how to distinguish racist and historical use of symbols like swastikas and Confederate symbols. You're actively advocating vicious totalitarian policy such as censorship that those symbols represent and that Conederates and Nazis used to promote, defend, and continue evil policies.

>> "You're actively advocating vicious totalitarian policy"

Of course I am.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#162

Post by calbear81 »

melling wrote: post #27
joshuapants wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's one thing to stop selling actual Confederate flags, it's another to try and scrub any mention of a historical event or depiction of a certain symbol in context. Apple is certainly within their rights to do this, but I think it's silly and impulsive.

No, it's wrong to stop selling the Confederate flag too. We don't seem to value freedom of speech and expression like we should. We are basically going on modern witch hunts against people who disagree with anything that's not politically correct.

Just as people should have the right to freedom of expression, businesses should have the right to sell what they want (there's exceptions here in cases of medical care for example when we want to make sure people have access to contraception or medication regardless of moral or religious belief). I'm okay with private businesses choosing not to stock the Confederate battle flag as long as we don't cross the line into not allowing the flag to be displayed or to even be made.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#163

Post by DanBC »

moron4hire wrote: post #160
yequalsx wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of talk about historical accuracy with regard to Apple's decision. Hence it's in context to post what exactly that flag represented to the people at the time of secession. When I lived in the South I never saw anyone other than white people flying that flag. It didn't represent pride to non-whites and the declarations of white people that it was part of their heritage went along with talk about 'those'…

Again, you're like completely ignoring that nobody is disputing the fact that the flag represented a racist ideology. I grew up around people who flew the flag like that, and yeah, they're universally racist assholes. In the North! Apparently they're too ignorant to even know what the Mason Dixon Line means. But we're talking about depictions of the flag in dramatizations of the Civil War.

> nobody is disputing the fact that the flag represented a racist ideology.

At least one person in this thread is doing exactly that.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#164

Post by kranner »

123 points in 2 hours and this is already on page 2 because the number of comments exceeds the number of upvotes? I would have missed this discussion if I hadn't checked HN in the last 2 hours.

Is it time for HN to review whether the upvotes-vs-comments penalization-heuristic still makes sense? It's feeling a little ad hoc and brittle to me.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#165

Post by yequalsx »

paulhauggis wrote: post #159
__z wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't ever remember even hearing a peep about people even giving a shit that it was for sale or flown. Well, yeah, people did peep up. Georgia's flag had the Confederate battle flag on it from 1956–2001. We can presume that people gave a shit enough to change it. Furthermore the Confederate flag used to fly over the State House (I believe, or Capitol Building, can't recall exactly). Moving it next to the Civil Wa…

"This is beyond silly." These are all a minority group of people that didn't like the flag. It didn't hit the main stream until this incident...ie: nobody cared.

These are all a minority group of people.....ie:nobody cared.

You are equating minority groups of people to being nobody. What a horrible belief. One gets the impression from what you've written on other posts that perhaps some self reflection is in order.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#166

Post by nmrm2 »

Brendinooo wrote: post #131
yequalsx wrote: post #76

Here is part of Mississippi's Declaration of Secession: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the…

I don't have a horse in this race - I'm a 'Northerner' who doesn't fly the Confederate flag and has never been a fan of people who do, but I never felt like it was my place to call others out. As such, I don't particularly take issue with the removal of the flag from public institutions. It's probably a good thing. However, I do take issue with narrow oversimplifications, and as such I would encourage you to do some…

> They're just people who have a bit of a redneck streak, are into country music, hunting, etc.

I know what you're saying, having grown up in the non-deep south. However, I disagree with you.

The flag makes a lot of people very uncomfortable (and for very good reasons). Placing one's sense of self-importance/rebellion above other's feelings of safety and belonging in a community that has historically enslaved and murdered them shows a profound lack of sympathy. Punk kids might just be ignorant of that reality, but grown adults should and do know better.

For that reason, I absolutely believe any adult who flies the flag is being racist in their wilful neglect of the traumatizing history it rightfully represents, in the same sense that all holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic regardless of whether they would perpetuate another holocaust.

Some things really are black and white. Flying a symbol of racial terrorism is one of them.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#167

Post by __z »

paulhauggis wrote: post #159
__z wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't ever remember even hearing a peep about people even giving a shit that it was for sale or flown. Well, yeah, people did peep up. Georgia's flag had the Confederate battle flag on it from 1956–2001. We can presume that people gave a shit enough to change it. Furthermore the Confederate flag used to fly over the State House (I believe, or Capitol Building, can't recall exactly). Moving it next to the Civil Wa…

"This is beyond silly." These are all a minority group of people that didn't like the flag. It didn't hit the main stream until this incident...ie: nobody cared.

CBS News and Huffington posts aren't mainstream? The NCAA isn't mainstream? Georgia's legislative branch isn't mainstream?

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#168

Post by moron4hire »

DanBC wrote: post #163
moron4hire wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you're like completely ignoring that nobody is disputing the fact that the flag represented a racist ideology. I grew up around people who flew the flag like that, and yeah, they're universally racist assholes. In the North! Apparently they're too ignorant to even know what the Mason Dixon Line means. But we're talking about depictions of the flag in dramatizations of the Civil War.

> nobody is disputing the fact that the flag represented a racist ideology. At least one person in this thread is doing exactly that.

That was long after this line of conversation started. Grandparent poster wanted to stand on a soap box.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#169

Post by nsxwolf »

__z wrote: post #152
k-mcgrady wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently so. It's interesting to watch though. Both my posts, while perfectly reasonable opposite viewpoints are getting down voted a lot. HN feels like reddit when you touch a nerve on freedom of speech. Crowd mentality/emotion seems to take over even in a group that is usually very logical and rational.

Free speech only applies to governments . Many people (not necessarily on HN) don't realize that.

Free speech is a value, not just a law. You can't just stamp out free speech any chance you get and then say you support free speech just because you're not the government.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#170

Post by joshuapants »

melling wrote: post #27
joshuapants wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's one thing to stop selling actual Confederate flags, it's another to try and scrub any mention of a historical event or depiction of a certain symbol in context. Apple is certainly within their rights to do this, but I think it's silly and impulsive.

No, it's wrong to stop selling the Confederate flag too. We don't seem to value freedom of speech and expression like we should. We are basically going on modern witch hunts against people who disagree with anything that's not politically correct.

I didn't say it's morally right to stop selling the Confederate flag, just that I understand a business wouldn't want to be associated with them and may decide to stop being a venue for their sale. I think Apple went far beyond that with this, and I would hope that even the most ardent anti-Confederate-flaggers can agree how silly it is.

edit: de-ambiguified some terms

Post reply on HN