Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#81

Post by hackuser » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:01 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #41

Political correctness has gone way too far in this country. When the Boston Bomber was on trial, there was a point made that his actions, because it was in the name of Islam, in no way reflects the actions of the entire religion or culture. Yet in South Carolina, the actions of one crazy person somehow now reflects on the entire culture and we need to remove the confederate flag. I don't see Amazon and Ebay removing…

In HN and other forums, I notice a strong correlation between the amount of prejudice in a post, and the amount of anger and ignorance in it.

There is no reason to tie these issues together. There are many problems in our country; to say one shouldn't be fixed because others persist is silly (and what you describe isn't a problem, but a benefit to our country).

It's also very sad that someone would casually and ignorantly insult a religion with over one billion innocent people as members, including many Americans. It's not Muslims or Southern white conservatives that are the problem, it's the bigoted and hateful minorities in all groups -- think what a wonderful world it would be without their anger, discrimination and violence.

> we have had way more deaths related to crazies in that religion than with the Confederate flag.

That's not true: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-...

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#82

Post by __z » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:01 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #34

TillE wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is quite explicitly uninterested in artistic expression on the app store. From the second paragraph in their guidelines: "We view Apps different than books or songs, which we do not curate. If you want to criticize a religion, write a book. If you want to describe sex, write a book or a song, or create a medical App." Their stance makes very little sense (arbitrarily dividing games away from books or films), bu…

I strongly suspect they wrote that expressively in case a court ever looks at Apple's policies, and needs to decide if Apple is silencing art/freedom of speech. Essentially they want to separate themselves from most existing legal precedent.

What "legal precedent" are you referring to?

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#83

Post by cwyers » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:01 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #48

joshuapants wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's one thing to stop selling actual Confederate flags, it's another to try and scrub any mention of a historical event or depiction of a certain symbol in context. Apple is certainly within their rights to do this, but I think it's silly and impulsive.

As long as Apple prevents me from using someone else's store on my phone, they are not within their rights to censor any apps based on content.

They are. If you don't like this, buy someone else's phone.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#84

Post by kuschku » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:02 PM UTC

infimum wrote: post #21

ap3 wrote: post #11

Are Siri and the Wikipedia app next on the list ? I don't understand the ban on the historical apps - the civil war did happen and the confederate flag was used. Are nazi flags and symbols banned from ww2 games ?

yes, they actually are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Germany

No, they are not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9777948

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#85

Post by pdabbadabba » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:03 PM UTC

yequalsx wrote: post #76

Here is part of Mississippi's Declaration of Secession: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the…

Yep. More people need to know these things. Here is another one:

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens

Savannah, Georgia

March 21, 1861

http://web.archive.org/web/20130822142313/http://teachingame...

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#86

Post by semi-extrinsic » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:04 PM UTC

nmrm2 wrote: post #79

falcolas wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stance doesn't make sense because it prevents a particular type of symbol in media they sell - it doesn't make sense because they treat Books, Music and Movies as somehow different - perhaps they consider it a higher form of art - from Games and Apps.

Again, the issue isn't whether games are Art. The issue is that Apple wants a closer association/connection between their brand and the contents of the App Store, and they can get that association with Apps in a way that would be impossible with music or books. People already consumed music and books before the iPhone, but curated Apps were an entirely new thing. Something like "Want a huge catalog of high-quality Ap…

>People DO associate certain high-quality Apps with the iPhone

[Citation needed]

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#87

Post by melling » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:04 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #61

Someone1234 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly suspect they wrote that expressively in case a court ever looks at Apple's policies, and needs to decide if Apple is silencing art/freedom of speech. Essentially they want to separate themselves from most existing legal precedent.

I strongly suspect they wrote that expressively in case a court ever looks at Apple's policies, and needs to decide if Apple is silencing art/freedom of speech Why would that end up in court? Apple is a private company. It's free to include/exclude whatever content it wants. Consumers don't have a right to force a company to provide the content they want.

We're coming for you next Lynyrd Skynyrd!

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/legend/id98922

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#88

Post by NoGravitas » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:05 PM UTC

Interesting question for me -- can you/are you expected to play as the Confederates in these games? Because a game where you play as the Union and the Confederates are the "bad guys" is certainly not glorifying the "Lost Cause", no matter how many Confederate flags there are in it.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#89

Post by T3RMINATED » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:06 PM UTC

i wonder if they will pull all USA vs Germany games... it has the Nazi Flag.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#90

Post by nmrm2 » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:07 PM UTC

Mithaldu wrote: post #68

nmrm2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their stance makes perfect sense. The App Store is not a commons, it is the private property of Apple, in which they curate the works of others at their convenience. But unlike a book store or a music store, they can closely associate what they stock with the brand becaues the "App" medium is so new . It's pretty similar to a local coffee shop maintaining a few book cases for customers to borrow or buy, but being pre…

Your simile is completely off. It's not like a local coffee shop with book cases, it's like a (fictitious) company that has a monopoly on stocking the book cases in all coffee shops nation-wide. Your cellphone is the coffee shop.

Okay, fine. The coffee shop is Starbucks.

The simile is only stronger in that case. The local coffee shop might be OK stocking some Marxist rags or hard core Libertarian texts or whatever the owner likes. Meanwhile, Starbucks only stocks the inoffensive books. Thus, the masses go to Starbucks because they want a cup of coffee from a nice normal person, and don't want to have to listen to a bunch of Marxists talk down to them while waiting in line or (perceive that they are being) condescended to by a Barista.

The book case simile is fictional, but Starbucks appropriating only the completely inoffensive parts of the canonical local coffee shop is a perfect parallel example.