It is a historical reference. This clearly was not well thought out.
Except it's not historical, the south didn't actually fly that flag at Gettysburg.
Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
71–80 of 226 posts
Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
The German government hasn't declared them not to be art either and as long as they haven't the real question is whether a court would consider them to be art. I think there is a very good chance that a court would consider them to be art but I don't see it coming to that anytime soon. A lot of gamers seem to be happy with versions that have these symbols replaced and everyone else simply imports them (which is as si…
In this interview the OLJB makes it very clear what their stance is: http://www.pcgames.de/Panorama-Thema-233992/Specials/Spiele-... (Even though, imo, the dude outright lies by stating that their interpretation of the law is what the law factually says.) Also, do note that i said at some point in the future.
Right, I used government to broadly. Nevertheless that games are not art is the opinion of that agency. As you already mentioned there interpretation of the law is somewhat shaky here.
Nevertheless to my understanding if a publisher were to get a game censored by the OLJB due to forbidden symbols, the publisher could go to court and I think they would have a decent chance at winning such a case.
Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Only because the german government, like any government, is old and slow, and as of yet does not classify computer games as art, citing the interactive aspect as an enabler of contextual reinterpretation; AND because many foreign game creators simply censor themselves proactively instead of taking this matter to court. There is a very reasonable expectation of this changing at some point in the future.
What the German courts are doing is enforcing the taboo on swastikas and anything else H*tler-related. I can understand why they are doing it and would like them to continue.
You're being extremely vague to the point of making your comment a non-sequitur.
Are you agreeing with the law exactly as it is written? (I am.) Are you agreeing with the interpretation of the law as it applies to computer games? (I don't.) Do you think computer games should never be allowed to contain historical symbols of forbidden groups? (I don't.) Do you think computer games should be allowed the usage if the usage serves the art? (I do.)
Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
#74Germany has a law about this, with some exceptions that would specifically apply to cases like this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_§_86a When a movie like Iron Sky has no problem being shown in German cinemas with the swastika left untouched, because it's clearly art, then it should be fairly obvious to Apple that banning historically accurate representations in historically accurate interactive a…
Apple is quite explicitly uninterested in artistic expression on the app store. From the second paragraph in their guidelines: "We view Apps different than books or songs, which we do not curate. If you want to criticize a religion, write a book. If you want to describe sex, write a book or a song, or create a medical App." Their stance makes very little sense (arbitrarily dividing games away from books or films), bu…
Their stance makes very little sense (arbitrarily dividing games away from books or films), but there it is.
US society has moved past moral panic over books and music. We're still in the thick of it with software (Brown vs. EMA was decided in 2011). Apple already chose to make themselves a certifying authority for software on other axes, so I don't find it surprising they sanitize content in the US-flavor of "family friendly" similar to other game consoles.
Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
In this interview the OLJB makes it very clear what their stance is: http://www.pcgames.de/Panorama-Thema-233992/Specials/Spiele-... (Even though, imo, the dude outright lies by stating that their interpretation of the law is what the law factually says.) Also, do note that i said at some point in the future.
Right, I used government to broadly. Nevertheless that games are not art is the opinion of that agency. As you already mentioned there interpretation of the law is somewhat shaky here. Nevertheless to my understanding if a publisher were to get a game censored by the OLJB due to forbidden symbols, the publisher could go to court and I think they would have a decent chance at winning such a case.
I agree with the latter paragraph and stated so (implicitly) here in the last sentence: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9778113
Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
#76Here is part of Mississippi's Declaration of Secession:
"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. "
It astounds me that there are large numbers of whites in this country who think the Civil War was about anything other than slavery. The Confederate flag represents and evil institution and represents the evil intent of white Southern power brokers 155 years ago.
I don't have an opinion as such on Apple's decision but let's not pretend that the Confederate flag is anything other than a symbol of overt racism.
Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
#77So what about all WWII games that have a swastika, or any number of historical flags that are simply referencing history rather than supporting an ideal? This is plain ridiculous.
First thing I checked was Wolfenstein 3D - and it's still there.
The messaging on this is really bad. You can't feign outrage at symbols of slavery without doing the same for symbols of genocide.
Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
#78The scariest thing is how fast sweeping and unanimous these acts of compliance are.
It's like these companies just woke up suddenly, had a conference call and without a hint of discussion, analysis or feedback started enforcing moral revisionism. It reeks of dishonest, cheap PR.
What's next on the agenda?
The saddest part is that this has totally taken over the discussion of shootings in North Carolina. US is unique in that 9 people gunned down in cold blood somehow turns into a discussion about a flag?
Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Their stance makes perfect sense. The App Store is not a commons, it is the private property of Apple, in which they curate the works of others at their convenience. But unlike a book store or a music store, they can closely associate what they stock with the brand becaues the "App" medium is so new . It's pretty similar to a local coffee shop maintaining a few book cases for customers to borrow or buy, but being pre…
The stance doesn't make sense because it prevents a particular type of symbol in media they sell - it doesn't make sense because they treat Books, Music and Movies as somehow different - perhaps they consider it a higher form of art - from Games and Apps.
Again, the issue isn't whether games are Art. The issue is that Apple wants a closer association/connection between their brand and the contents of the App Store, and they can get that association with Apps in a way that would be impossible with music or books. People already consumed music and books before the iPhone, but curated Apps were an entirely new thing.
Something like "Want a huge catalog of high-quality Apps curated by a company with good taste? Get an iPhone."
It makes sense because IT WORKED. People DO associate certain high-quality Apps with the iPhone, even when those apps are made available on Android at some point.
Just because you (or I) disagree with it doesn't mean it's not a policy that makes good sense. It gave a huge boost their their product's reputation...
Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
I strongly suspect they wrote that expressively in case a court ever looks at Apple's policies, and needs to decide if Apple is silencing art/freedom of speech. Essentially they want to separate themselves from most existing legal precedent.
I strongly suspect they wrote that expressively in case a court ever looks at Apple's policies, and needs to decide if Apple is silencing art/freedom of speech Why would that end up in court? Apple is a private company. It's free to include/exclude whatever content it wants. Consumers don't have a right to force a company to provide the content they want.
Using a monopoly position in the market to influence what kind of media is available on the market at large, however, can get you in trouble with courts.
Get in trouble for anti-monopoly stuff usually requires two parts: that you be a monopoly and that you somehow use it. Shaping a market to your desires is an example of using your monopoly standing.
Apple won't get in trouble because they're not a monopoly, but that's how a private company can get in trouble for filtering speech in an eco-system they control.