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The Unix Philosophy

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81–90 of 269 posts

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#81
post #13

This should be taught in any programming class. > Rule of Diversity: Distrust all claims for “one true way”. Although, does the python rule "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it." contradict this one ? > Rule 5. Data dominates. If you've chosen the right data structures and organized things well, the algorithms will almost always be self-evident. Data structures, not algorithms, are ce…

>I wonder what rob pike has to say about OOP or java, I wish I could listen to it.

“object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing.” - Rob Pike (http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming/)

Some other gems from that page:

“Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have originated in California.” – Edsger Dijkstra

“The phrase "object-oriented” means a lot of things. Half are obvious, and the other half are mistakes.“ – Paul Graham

“I used to be enamored of object-oriented programming. I’m now finding myself leaning toward believing that it is a plot designed to destroy joy.” – Eric Allman

“The problem with object-oriented languages is they’ve got all this implicit environment that they carry around with them. You wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla holding the banana and the entire jungle.” – Joe Armstrong

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#82

People will hang shit on ESR, but The Art of Unix Programming is one of my all time favourite books. If you haven't read it, even if you're not a *nix developer, do yourself a favour and just skim the table of contents... something may pique your interest and you may learn a thing or two. It's also free online: http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/

"People will hang shit on ESR"

An example "Reading it, it looks like a total hack job by a poor programmer."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=923660

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#83
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with this? Being completely serious here, what is wrong with citizens owning firearms? I am all about reducing gun violence, but if you want to do that you have to do something to stem the tide of illegally acquired handguns in areas of concentrated poverty. That's where a lot of your gun violence comes from. The recent happenings in Charleston are unicorns. Unpredictable and very rare events that you ca…

I'm not sure I can say there's something absolutely wrong with it, but my opinion is that citizens shouldn't be allowed to own firearms. I live somewhere (UK) where they can't, and there is very little gun violence. That's not to say, of course, there aren't problems, but I just think - on balance - the world would be better off with fewer killing machines in it.

Its kind of like prisoners' dilemma. Who loses their firearms first, citizens or criminals? They lose.

I'd also like to say something about societies with ubiquitous government public and private surveillance, chilling of freedom of speech and repressive cultures, but I live in the USA so I can't throw stones.

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#84
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with this? Being completely serious here, what is wrong with citizens owning firearms? I am all about reducing gun violence, but if you want to do that you have to do something to stem the tide of illegally acquired handguns in areas of concentrated poverty. That's where a lot of your gun violence comes from. The recent happenings in Charleston are unicorns. Unpredictable and very rare events that you ca…

More guns == more murder. > “For each 1 percentage point increase in proportion of household gun ownership,” Siegel et al. found, “firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9″ percent. http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/13/2617131/largest-...

And what homicide rate diminished? If it just moves the weapon of choice, its largely irrelevant.

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESR's views particularly on guns, libertarian economics and politics, and AGW, all present pretty standard cases of assuming a frame and fitting all data to that frame. Chopping, discarding, and/or fabricating data as necessary to do so. That actually directly calls into question engineering validity, as solid engineering is solidly based in reality and a realistic interpretation of facts. Also the ability to discard…

ESR's views particularly on guns, libertarian economics and politics, and AGW, all present pretty standard cases of assuming a frame and fitting all data to that frame. Chopping, discarding, and/or fabricating data as necessary to do so. That actually directly calls into question engineering validity, as solid engineering is solidly based in reality and a realistic interpretation of facts. Also the ability to discard…

...but his positions...

His making up shit (or buying in to others' made-up shit) to justify them does, as does his ignoring contradictory evidence and record..

Which questions about what work?

The problem is one of an unreliable narrator. If you cannot trust someone's judgement, and they spew crap, repeatedly, then the odds that they're blowing smoke elsewhere increase.

It's the same reason that lawyers seek to impugn witnesses or call into question credibility. Or, to pick another hobby horse of mine, there are news and media organizations which spew crap. Fox News gets a lot of much-deserved scorn for this, but they're not the only one. Bullshit in media (in the most general meaning of the word: any information delivery system) is something I've been paying a lot of attention to, and I'm rather sensitive to it.

Case in point recently involves a 123 year old quote I'd seen attributed to J. P. Morgan, the Gilded Age banker. It struck me as curious, and I dug into it. My conclusion: it's a hoax.

The item in question is referred to as the Banker's Manifesto of 1892, or as the Wall Street Manifesto. Almost certainly the fabrication of one Thomas Westlake Gilruth, lawyer, real estate agent, community activist, and some-time speaker and writer for People's Party causes in the 1890s and 1900s. (Pardon the digression: there is a point, it happens to be both fresh in my mind and sufficiently detached from contemporary affairs to be a fair foil.)

Among the evidence I turned up, several contemporaneous newspapermen who'd drawn the same conclusion. Mind that this was a time of highly partisan press, but these were editors of People's Party papers in various locales.

From The advocate and Topeka tribune. (Topeka, Kan.), 7 & 14 Sept. 1892:

The Great West and one or two other exchanges reproduce the Chicago Daily Press fake purporting to be a Wall street circular. The thing originated in the fertile brain of F. W. Gilmore [sic: should be T. W. Gilruth], who held a position for a time at the Press. He has been challenged time and again to produce the original if it is genuine, and has failed to do so. The thing is a fraud and so is its author, and neither of them is worthy of the confidence of the people.

The following week's issue corected the typo with a emphasis on why naming and shaming mattered:

We desire to make this correction lest there be somebody named Gilmore who might object to the charge, and because the fraud should be placed where it belongs. Gilruth is a snide, and if anyone who knows him has not yet found it out, he is liable to do so to his sorrow.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85031982/1892-09-07...

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85031982/1892-09-14...

From the Barbour County index., July 06, 1892, p. 1

If the genuineness of this dispatch cannot be established, it should be taken in at once. If reform writers put it alongside the Huscard and Buell circulars and various other documents of like character, the public faith in the genuineness of all may be shaken. We cannot afford to father any fakes.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn82015080/1892-07-06...

https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/39w8u4/jp_morg...

(My own analysis turned up other internal inconsistencies within the documents as well, detailed at the reddit link above.)

Much as those late 19th century editors, a hueristic I've increasingly taken to applying is looking at what sources (publications, companies, politicians, authors, online commentators, monitoring systems) do and don't provide reliable information. There's also a distinction I draw between occasionally being wrong (errors happen), and systematic bias. As the Tribune and Index called out, Gilruth was being systematically misleading. And apparently intentionally.

My issue with ESR isn't that I know he's bullshitting on any one point or antoher, it's that I don't know when he is, and, as with other unreliable data streams, sussing out the truth is a lot of work for low reward. He's like an unreliable gauage or monitoring system that sends off false alerts when it shouldn't ,stays silent when it should alert, and highlights the wrong areas of trouble when it does manage to go off at the right time. You simply start to lose your faith in it.

ESR's problem is he believes his own bullshit.

I've decided I don't need that problem.

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESR's views particularly on guns, libertarian economics and politics, and AGW, all present pretty standard cases of assuming a frame and fitting all data to that frame. Chopping, discarding, and/or fabricating data as necessary to do so. That actually directly calls into question engineering validity, as solid engineering is solidly based in reality and a realistic interpretation of facts. Also the ability to discard…

ESR's views particularly on guns, libertarian economics and politics, and AGW, all present pretty standard cases of assuming a frame and fitting all data to that frame. Chopping, discarding, and/or fabricating data as necessary to do so. That actually directly calls into question engineering validity, as solid engineering is solidly based in reality and a realistic interpretation of facts. Also the ability to discard…

    > This is just a dressed up ad hominem
No, it's explicitly and purposefully ad-hominem, suggesting that a person's lack of judgement in one area leads to questions about his judgement in a related one.

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding [2]. So I guess this quote is the problem: > And the part that, if you are a decent human being and not a racist bigot, you have been dreading: American blacks average a standard deviation lower in IQ than American whites at about 85. [...] And yes, it’s genetic; g seems to be about 85% heritable, and recent studies of effects like regression towards the mean suggest strongly that most of the heritability i…

I guess everyone and every group finds certain truths uncomfortable. It's especially sad that the theory of evolution seems to make literally everyone uncomfortable. "Of course humans and chimps have a common ancestor! We have looked at the genetic code, and found that more than 95% is shared. Give up, it's over." The right will hate you for saying that. "Of course there is inherited variation in intelligence, no mat…

Evolution doesn't necessarily have a direct link with intelligence; nor even does natural selection which is the theory that, I think, you're basing your argument on.

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the Python language or the Python ecosystem you are referring to? The statement in question is from The Zen of Python and is more of a guiding principle for the design of Python than a rule. The usual observation with Python is that it can have many libraries and frameworks which are quite similar and choosing one can be hard (e.g. web frameworks). This is a function of popularity and not something which can fa…

It's both the language and the ecosystem. The language itself is a prime example of a language with features that aren't orthogonal. For example count how many features in Python are solved in other languages just with proper support for anonymous functions.

Python's support for closures is perfectly fine. Its anonymous function support is crappy, but it doesn't stop you from doing what you want, it just looks as ugly as sin.

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#89
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESR's views particularly on guns, libertarian economics and politics, and AGW, all present pretty standard cases of assuming a frame and fitting all data to that frame. Chopping, discarding, and/or fabricating data as necessary to do so. That actually directly calls into question engineering validity, as solid engineering is solidly based in reality and a realistic interpretation of facts. Also the ability to discard…

> ESR's political views call much of his work into question. Presumably this question, whatever it is, can be answered by looking at his work. Do you think ESR's technical work and technical writings fail to stand up to scrutiny?

ESR expressed views on all sorts of items which are unknowable and much debated; programmers cling to this idea that there's a right and a wrong (protobuffers not JSON! One True Way vs TMTOWTDI! Emacs vs Vi! JavaScript is a reasonable choice etc etc). Generally there's not, there are just ideas and opinions without hard data. Systemd contradicts pieces of the original article.

So you tell me: how would we know if his technical work stood up to scrutiny? If I have experience that agrees, does that mean it does? What if my experience contradicts IT?

Re: The Unix Philosophy

#90
post #35

the rule of separation makes me wonder if the long term legacy of Wayland will be as a hardware accelerated backend for X.

X as a protocol is long gone. Direct memory access, kernel drivers etc are not really compatible with network protocol. Wayland is just streamlining and formalizing current situation.

Nonsense - I use it all the time, as do many other people I know. It is mostly GTK+ and Qt that badly misuse the protocol by rending everything client side. (OpenGL is it's own world, and works with X just fine, even remotely)
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