Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#101

Post by koko775 » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 7:50 AM UTC

frizbee wrote: post #86

empressplay wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still not following how that's any different than just owning a subreddit. If I own a subreddit I can moderate the posts in it. Under your model, you're suggesting that I can "moderate" posts that initiate from my server, but not others, and once again I'm still not sure what advantage that has over owning a subreddit?

Frizbee itself is not going to censor their content.

Except where legally necessary, or when someone is in imminent danger. What happens if someone posts the details of someone's address and asks people to go to their house and heckle them / hurt them / kill them? Do you leave that up?

If that information is deleted, the difference between frizbee and reddit becomes so extremely marginal that one really wonders whether this really is a rationalization for allowing people to organize around threatening and stalking people online.

If that information is not removed, does such a site deserve to exist? It may pass some legal standard, but is that a site that differentiates itself in any way except in its support of systematic and continued online stalking??

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#102

Post by lqdc13 » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 7:55 AM UTC

na85 wrote: post #96

frizbee wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These glitches have since been fixed.

Performance is awful on my i7. You should use less js. I should not be able to watch things being indented and layouts being modified as the page loads.

Yup can't even browse with JS turned off unlike HN/reddit.

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#103

Post by koko775 » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 7:55 AM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #73

eevee wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what language does "stalking and threatening and hurting others" translate into "people I don't like"?

The language where "stalking and threatening and hurting" equates to "saying mean things on the internet", or at times "disagreeing with". I'm getting rather tired of seeing words like "harassment" being bandied about as shorthand for incivility.

But that doesn't hold up under scrutiny:

reddit explicitly defined their language around harassment to mean:

> Systematic and/or continued actions to torment or demean someone in a way that would make a reasonable person (1) conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation, or (2) fear for their safety or the safety of those around them.

http://www.redditblog.com/2015/05/promote-ideas-protect-peop...

Key words to pay attention to here are: systematic, continued, fear. This isn't about being a jerk, or even being a jerk randomly. It's about being a jerk in a targeted way, a lot and over time, in a very intentional way to the degree that it causes fear to speak up or fear for one's self.

Look at the extent to which reddit admins allow hateful speech so long as they don't step outside their boundaries, and you'll understand that they're actually sticking to that definition.

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#104

Post by rustynails77 » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 8:51 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #72

milkworsethan wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation: I want free speech except I want people I don't like to not have it.

That's the problem with restricting speech. Who defines what is acceptable and not. You can't even say something along the lines of no hate or no harm or no threats as what those terms refer to can change over time and also by locale. Slang in one place may refer to something rather innocuous and that same term may refer to something entirely different in a different place or dialect. Also some terms can be endearing…

That's a really insightful post. It's difficult to determine what is acceptable and what is not. I often find myself at odds, particularly around political correctness - where there seems to be a free pass for some people to be prejudiced without accountability.

The question I ask myself is whether or not they should be banned. I usually come to the conclusion that rebuttal is better than banning.

However, i'm also a fan of Karl Popper's don't tolerate the intolerant.

An example of the Intolerant, https://feministrag.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/remembering-the...

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#105

Post by zamalek » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 8:53 AM UTC

minimaxir wrote: post #6

Let's look at what happened to Voat. After people claimed Reddit was censoring users by banning /r/fatpeoplehate, the more unsavory users flocked to Voat, a blatant Reddit clone. As you would expect, said unsavory people posted unsavory content. Said unsavory content, while free and uncensored, was not legal , and that causes problems: http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/3avyem/voat_... Said issues caused…

To be fair remember that Atko (the Voat founder) has always maintained that he would act when authorities told him to. This wasn't a buckling under pressure: it was following the law (albeit reactively and not proactively).

However:

The whole scenario is an utter joke: Reddit is thought-policed to the point of unbelievable absurdity. It's like a nursery school filled with Rachel Dolezals. Voat is filled with people who have gone completely off the rocker, given the ability to exercise their rights, and see fit to use their newly acquired rights to speak of nothing but those unsavory topics - most commonly racists.

The website are polar opposites and both are a hindrance to free, critical and intelligent thought - be it on purpose (Reddit) or by virtue (Voat).

It seems like the website format is a flawed concept. I don't take either website seriously.

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#106

Post by zamalek » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 9:12 AM UTC

milkworsethan wrote: post #53

koko775 wrote: post #10

No censorship as in no moderation? No thanks. No censorship as in no punishing the stalking and threatening of others? Also no thanks. I want free speech where people are free with their speech, not unrestrained speech (specifically) where people feel free to hurt others.

Translation: I want free speech except I want people I don't like to not have it.

> I want free speech except I want people I don't like to not have it.

No, actually, koko very loosely defined actual free speech. In a nutshell free speech means that you can say whatever you please so long as you don't venture into what the American courts call "fighting words" (words/images designed to cause harm to another person or words/images that inspire others to cause harm to another person).

Example:

Let's say that I am prejudiced toward piglets (those damn curly tails!). I can express my extreme disdain for the swines to my heart's content. I can talk to people who share my bacon-related woes in the open.

However, I can't encourage people to go and harass or do harm to the hogs. I can't dox Babe and let everyone know the specific pen of residence: that would be encouraging others to harm, harass or make breakfast out of the pig.

*May not actually apply to pigs.

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#107

Post by steveeq1 » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 10:04 AM UTC

flashman wrote: post #94

steveeq1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English translation: "I believe in freedom of speech. . . except for things that I find offensive" There is no such thing as hate speech in a free speech environment. There is no guarantee you won't be offended.

More like, "Nobody is going to stop you saying what you want... but they're going to hold you responsible for the consequences." That's all any of us wants.

And if the consequences are high enough, it's not really free speech.

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#108

Post by soneil » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 11:19 AM UTC

duncan_bayne wrote: post #36

keedot wrote: post #16

I honestly hope one of these takes off. I don't want to ever go there, I don't take amusement in other people's suffering. But seeing so much outrage on reddit from assholes bitching that they can't be racist/bigoted/loathsome on a private forum screaming about freedom of speech which belies their own ignorance makes me long for the days of gopher. I find it repugnant, and I'm glad to live in a country where I'm free…

"I'm glad to live in a country where I'm free to say anything, but hate speech is prosecuted." I'm going to be optimistic for the future of humanity, and assume that was a (masterful) troll.

This dichotomy always exists. Very few rights are without their limits. Their front page already makes a perfect example of this: "Our manifesto is clear: we protect your right to privacy and freedom of speech".

If a user wishes to 'doxx' me, my right to privacy and their freedom of speech are at odds. Which wins?

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#109

Post by soneil » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 11:24 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #95

duncan_bayne wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm glad to live in a country where I'm free to say anything, but hate speech is prosecuted." I'm going to be optimistic for the future of humanity, and assume that was a (masterful) troll.

That's a very common sentiment in eg England. Americans tend not to realise that their free speech laws are sometimes seen as extreme in Europe. It's not surprising they used a throwaway, they already got downvoted. (It wasn't me.)

The Westboro Baptist Church make an easily graspable example of this. In the US the consensus (if any) seems to be "vile, but within their rights". But they're banned from entering the UK or Canada, because we draw that line differently.

Re: Show HN: Reddit alternative – decentralized social news site, no censorship

#110

Post by keedot » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 11:25 AM UTC

duncan_bayne wrote: post #36

keedot wrote: post #16

I honestly hope one of these takes off. I don't want to ever go there, I don't take amusement in other people's suffering. But seeing so much outrage on reddit from assholes bitching that they can't be racist/bigoted/loathsome on a private forum screaming about freedom of speech which belies their own ignorance makes me long for the days of gopher. I find it repugnant, and I'm glad to live in a country where I'm free…

"I'm glad to live in a country where I'm free to say anything, but hate speech is prosecuted." I'm going to be optimistic for the future of humanity, and assume that was a (masterful) troll.

It always surprises me when Americans think their concept of free speech is the only model. Much, if not most of the rest of the western world does not share this view of unchecked speech.