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A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

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Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#51
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Did you know that there are parts of Venus which are a shirt-sleeve (and breathing mask) environment?" Please expand on this.

Venus has a very thick atmosphere. At the height of a few miles above surface, there are layers with room temperature and human-acceptable pressure. Of course, the atmosphere is still CO₂ with some nasties, so a gas mask is required. But a Star-Wars-esque floating city would be quite manageable there. You can use hydrogen for floating because there's not oxygen around, so no risk of a blast. NASA is already working o…

50km up, actually. (Venus' atmosphere is scary thick.)

And it's better than you think: the atmosphere there is largely carbon dioxide, which is denser than air; so you don't need hydrogen for bouyancy. You can use breathable air and live inside the balloons. The inside's at a slight overpressure, so any leakage will be outwards rather than inwards, and the pressure differential's pretty small so it's likely to be pretty unexciting.

You're above the clouds, so there's plenty of sunlight. Luckily there's this really big surface to spread solar panels on; your balloon. Then you can electrically break down the carbon dioxide into oxygen. Or just use plants. What is it they like again? Oh, yeah, carbon dioxide...

What you don't get is much in the way of heavy elements; light organics (CHON, mostly) can be extracted from the atmosphere, but that does solve your immediate life support issues. Metals you'll need to go to the surface for, which may be a little exciting, but is perfectly doable (by machine, preferably). You're probably better off building out of organically produced carbon fibre, i.e. wood.

Venus really is one of the most hospitable planets in the solar system, after Earth. If you like planets, of course.

Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#52
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

!Mars != !Space. Mars is a dusty, barren deathtrap of a rock that's at the bottom of a very deep hole. The only thing to do on Mars is to _be_ on Mars. It's not (plausibly) terraformable, sustaining life there will obvious continuous and hugely expensive technical input, there are no resources there worth going there for, and once you've gone there, to get back you have to climb out of a hugely deep hole. Meanwhile t…

> Did you know that there are parts of Venus which are a shirt-sleeve (and breathing mask) environment? Nope, that's news to me. According to: http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/eoc/special_topics/teach/sp_clima... the minimum temperature on Venus is 870F, well above the melting point of lead. Do you know something that UCSD doesn't?

http://www.iflscience.com/space/nasa-wants-establish-floatin...

Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#53
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you know that there are parts of Venus which are a shirt-sleeve (and breathing mask) environment? Nope, that's news to me. According to: http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/eoc/special_topics/teach/sp_clima... the minimum temperature on Venus is 870F, well above the melting point of lead. Do you know something that UCSD doesn't?

http://www.iflscience.com/space/nasa-wants-establish-floatin...

We're talking about colonization here, not exploration. That's not even a practical plan to make more living space here on earth, let alone on Venus.

Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#54
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.iflscience.com/space/nasa-wants-establish-floatin...

We're talking about colonization here, not exploration. That's not even a practical plan to make more living space here on earth, let alone on Venus.

It's actually not all that impractical. Venus' atmosphere is much more dense than Earth's; floating in it should be quite a bit easier.

Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

!Mars != !Space. Mars is a dusty, barren deathtrap of a rock that's at the bottom of a very deep hole. The only thing to do on Mars is to _be_ on Mars. It's not (plausibly) terraformable, sustaining life there will obvious continuous and hugely expensive technical input, there are no resources there worth going there for, and once you've gone there, to get back you have to climb out of a hugely deep hole. Meanwhile t…

Living on Venus won't save you from a future red-giant-phase Sol. Mars may not either, but it's a better bet.

Perhaps not, but it gets humans used to the idea of traveling to and living in/on/etc. worlds that aren't exactly hospitable. Additionally, the sulfuric acid clouds in Venus' atmosphere might be useful for various industrial processes.

Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#56
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure humanity deserves to be the species that settles the Milky Way What does that even mean? Especially in the context of how much we've changed to get us this far and how much we would have to change to colonize a galaxy? You might as well have looked at Homo habilis 2.8M years ago and said, "these creatures don't deserve to surf the Internet."

It's premised on the belief that humans are unworthy. It's a meaningless statement, that only reveals what opinion the person holds of humanity, while lacking any objective foundation of comparison. It's just as likely that we are the most worthy of any species in the Milky Way or universe. Which is to say, every other intelligent life form in the galaxy is worse, or perhaps drastically worse. In my counter opinion ,…

I dunno. I think it's just a matter of time before the dolphins start exploring the cosmos.

Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc4HL_-VT2Y We (complex life) couldn't recover from something like that. Maybe simple life could hide deep in the earth and emerge when it's safe thousands of years later.

Makes my point. After that event you now have an earth that is about as habitable as Mars is today. That is also the absolute worst case scenario that is theoretically possible, literally a one in a billion year event. That is something we can plan for and build for now with: Anti-Asteroid technology, "Fallout" shelters/biodomes etc... Or hell, a fucking Dyson sphere (or series of them) is a million times easier/bett…

I agree with this. If the survival of the species is the goal we'd be far better off building a deep bunker complex on Earth than trying to get a self-sufficient colony going on Mars.

Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#58
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about colonization here, not exploration. That's not even a practical plan to make more living space here on earth, let alone on Venus.

It's actually not all that impractical. Venus' atmosphere is much more dense than Earth's; floating in it should be quite a bit easier.

> Venus' atmosphere is much more dense than Earth's

Won't help:

"The ships would float 50 kilometers (31 miles) above the planet’s surface. Here, there would be only one atmosphere of pressure, and the temperature would be a reasonable 75"C."

75 C is 160 F. Granted that's cool enough to keep water from boiling, but unless you're a tubeworm you're probably not going to be happy living there without air conditioning.

Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#59
post #12

I'm incredibly optimistic about the disruption Elon Musk is bringing to the automotive and battery industries and the commercialization of space transport. Amazing guy. That said, I'm starting to think that Mars is going to be his Spruce Goose ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_H-4_Hercules ). It's crazy, it's expensive, and at this point, it's an unnecessary moonshot that makes literal moonshots seem reasonable.…

Titan in many ways is a much better candidate for colonization. It has water and an actual atmosphere.

Re: A Serious Conversation about the Future in Space

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Earth might get a flat tire There is no possible "flat-tire" existential risk scenario which makes moving to Mars cheaper (man hours) than just fixing whatever happened on earth. IMO that kills the whole thing right off the bat.

A red-giant Sol might be.

In which case no place in our Solar system is safe.
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