I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed • Hacker News Board

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#241

Post by bsder » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:00 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #88

shas3 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the objective is to limit immigration, the rules are arbitrary. Like bureaucracy in general, it is also counterproductive to the economy. Skilled immigrants, after all aren't like industrial pollution or worker safety or pharmaceutical drugs to be deliberately doomed to bureaucratic labyrinths.

I would strongly support massive expansion of the lottery system (and the reserve on advanced degrees), and have written my local congresspeople about it in the past. I do this knowing that it may even result in driving down wages in STEM fields. Because I think it's too important over the long-term.

The simplest solution is to shorten the H1-B time to a year and auto-convert to green card.

More tech immigrants. No indentured servitude.

Everybody wins. Except for the tech corporations who are suppressing wages--which is all of them--which is why it never happens.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#242

Post by tosseraccount » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:00 PM UTC

Moderate, specific levels of immigration, legal only. Weighted point system; random draw.

Capital can move to where labor is cheaper. No need for USA to have population density of Japan, China or India.

I can't blame people for wanting to flee corruption, but some people staying and fighting is a better way to make the world better.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#243

Post by outworlder » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:02 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #161

madars wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you overestimate the straight-forwardness of this. Option #2 means including economic incentives in your relationship ("I better rush towards marrying someone, lest I get kicked out!"). Option #3 is very restricted -- if you are on a non-immigrant visa (e.g. student visa), then the simple fact of applying for the lottery (and thus signalling immigration intent) will likely make you ineligible for a renewal.

But you see, that's it. Those are the options. Option #4: treat people who want to immigrate with decency, isn't available. I think it's fair to complain that this option doesn't exist, I'd like it to exist. But it doesn't and options #1-3 are what the author had to work within, yet chose not to pursue any of them. If he still wants to get in, once he's back in New Zealand, he's free to continue pursuing permanent re…

Obviously, you can overcome any legal hurdle with "tenacity".

Lottery is out if he intended to stay. I am wondering if you are a troll for even having suggested it. It is meant for people outside the US - with no intent of ever visiting. It signals immigration intent, so even tourist visas can be denied on that alone. It is a lottery, not an application. Very low odds that would actually make it harder for him to stay in the country. He seems to have a couple of brain cells, so he didn't go for that.

Marrying may not be an option, or maybe not yet. He may not want to, he may not have found someone he truly wants to marry (and doing it for the sole purpose of getting a visa is fraud), he may not even like women. I don't know why he didn't, and you don't either.

Getting a job that will want to sponsor a visa only really works if the demand is truly ridiculous to justify it - such as computer science or engineering. Changing what appears to be a successful law carreer for another in, say, computer science is not really an option without leaving the US, which the author did not want to do in the first place.

So, once he's back in New Zealand, what are his options? Other than the lottery, which is a lottery, not a guarantee. There are a few avenues he could try, but I can think of none that don't have the risk of rebuilding his whole life and getting deported a few years later, once again.

No matter how tenacious he is.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#244

Post by ars » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:05 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #187

anthony_d wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'cheaper' is a comparison. 'hard' is not. I don't think anyone wants salaries to go into free-fall but that's not a necessary result of easing immigration.

Isn't it? By definition wouldn't an increase in supply of talent for a given job decrease market wage for that talent unless it was already in a shortage (which we never really know until it's over)?

But there is also an increase in demand, those new works have money and want to spend it.

It balances out usually in the positive.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#245

Post by orkoden » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:06 PM UTC

pkaye wrote: post #41

Is it much easier in the EU? For example, can I go to Switzerland or France and easily get permanent residency?

It depends where you are from. But it's not that hard for US and Canadian citizens if you have a job or want to study. You won't be thrown out as quickly as in the US.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#246

Post by chongli » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:07 PM UTC

Jugurtha wrote: post #220

pc86 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it? By definition wouldn't an increase in supply of talent for a given job decrease market wage for that talent unless it was already in a shortage (which we never really know until it's over)?

Sound logic, but it is not an automatically enforced one. Take waste collectors, for example: Very few people want to do it, very few people actually do it. And it is necessary. By our sound logic, their salaries should be soaring, but they're not. On the other hand, take lawyers in the U.S. A huge number of people want to do it. A huge number of people ends up doing it (I think the number of lawyers tripled in 30 ye…

but those who end up doing it still make good money

If they can land a good job or a partnership. Many struggle[0].

[0] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/business/dealbook/burdened...

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#247

Post by biztos » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:07 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #121

fred2133 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free movement of goods, labour and capital. Miss out one and you don't have a free market, you're just being scammed.

And that’s what makes the huge difference between Schengen and free trade agreements like TTIP. (If one ignores the protection part of TTIP)

Schengen is for citizens only. If you are third-country national who is a permanent resident of a Schengen country, with an unlimited right to work, you have exactly ZERO right to live or work in any other Schengen country. Sure, you can travel by land without having your passport checked, but that's as far as it goes.

The European Union is a Union until you need it to behave like one, and then it isn't.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#248

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:07 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #226

sliverstorm wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture is not totally benign. The export of America's culture has had a huge impact on the world, for better or worse. I think people who want to preserve their own culture have reasons aside from simple nostalgia.

Up and till approx the 40s we imported our culture from Europe -as did much of the rest of the economies of the world. American culture exports didn't become popular till the US became an economic power to contend with. In Asia, however, the cultural exporters, at the moment, are Japan and Korea, not so much China, despite its economic size. Fortunately and unfortunately, Asia is more pragmatic about cultural imports…

Culture exports carry with them morals, ethics, and value systems. Different countries have different m/e/v, and they may not want America's. There's nothing to say America has the right set of m/e/v; hell, people bitch about America's puritanical nature on this very website all the time. In which case it's easy to see why a country might be concerned about importing America's culture, given the m/e/v that come with it.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#249

Post by mzs » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:09 PM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #229

mzs wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very likely that the first time he applied for the lottery he would lose his visa and have to leave the US for an indeterminate period of time. The way it works in practice, people that had another visa before are at a disadvantage in the lottery. It is also not free. Military service was potentially another route though, but may have been intractable due to circumstances like student loans or military fitness…

No. There is no connection between the lottery and your visa except if you win. You do not win the green card, you win the application. Not sure why you thinking that the lottery is not free, but it has been free forever (except for the scam sites). Military service only gives you green card and residency if it is war time. During non war time, it allows you to apply for citizenship after you served (instead of waiti…

Thank you for the corrections, I was going on incorrect info from a family member and friend.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#250

Post by kingmanaz » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:09 PM UTC

shas3 wrote: post #68

The US legal immigration system is perfectly described by the adjective, Kafkaesque. In terms of the arbitrariness of bureaucracy, it has more in common with what I saw in the socialist days of India and what one reads in books by Solzhenitsyn and Kafka. The iniquities have been discussed repeatedly in popular press, with almost no changes wrought in the process. Many years ago (yes, 2011 was 4 years ago) Newsweek ra…

A nation exists to serve the will of /its people/. With rampant illegal and legal immigration, a nation cannot know who /its people/ are. A nation serving no one people is a nation serving no one, it instead arbitrates in favor of whichever group screams the loudest. Diversity leads to division. Division leads to divestment. Divestment leads to dissolution and war.

America is more than a place to make money, it is more than a marketplace, it is a /home/ built by North-Western European ancestors for the benefit of their progeny. The rest of the world is not entitled to live in the United States, hence the inconvenience of the law which the parent article so illogically decries.

There's no need for America and the West to bankrupt themselves raising the children of others; other's haven't, don't, and won't do the same for dispossessed European peoples.