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I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

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Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#131

Post by dalke »

vonklaus wrote: post #17
ElComradio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it actually been shown that if we were to throw open the borders to STEM employees that it would result in a net economic gain? Because as far as I can tell, movements to get droves of women and immigrants into software is entirely driven by companies' desire for cheaper labor.

I don't know of a comprehensive study that has been done (although there probably is) that links qualified individuals immigrating with net economic growth. However, if you look at it like VC investing, it would be worth letting 1000 people in to get an entrepreneur capable of making a Stripe, Tesla, etc. According to this forbes article[0] 40 percent of Fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants. Obviously, ma…

That link is to a welcome page. Forbes uses a system where when you go to a page, it redirects to that welcome page, with an ad, then after a pause lets you go to the original page. Looks like you copy&pasted in the middle of that.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#132

Post by dataker »

kazinator wrote: post #24
murbard2 wrote: post #12

I personally consider that opening borders is a moral imperative, but I understand why it is controversial. I understand that the arguments against "letting everyone in" have some merit, though I ultimately disagree with them. What is a real head scratcher to me is the US policy on highly-skilled immigrants. There are certainly some political constituencies in favor of those, but I can't think of anyone against, at l…

Opening borders works for multicultural countries built on immigration. For countries that are based on a unique language, ethnicity and culture, it is damaging.

Unless the center of your argument is based on race, every country would have to ban Netflix, McDonalds and Hollywood movies.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#133

Post by anthony_d »

johnchristopher wrote: post #122
kuschku wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The debate the politicians in my state (Schleswig-Holstein, a state in Germany) had about this was really interesting, sadly it’s in German. Essentially, it boils down to two issues: Morally, we all are descendants of immigrants, or at least most. Economically, most immigrants are willing to work hard. Combined with the fact that our society has a birth rate below replacement rate (1.3 vs. 2.1) we need immigrants jus…

> Economically, most immigrants are willing to work hard. `Hard' as in `cheaper' ?

'cheaper' is a comparison. 'hard' is not.

I don't think anyone wants salaries to go into free-fall but that's not a necessary result of easing immigration.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#134

Post by kazinator »

dataker wrote: post #132
kazinator wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening borders works for multicultural countries built on immigration. For countries that are based on a unique language, ethnicity and culture, it is damaging.

Unless the center of your argument is based on race, every country would have to ban Netflix, McDonalds and Hollywood movies.

Not only is that false, but no country would have to ban tourism or immigration. (Not having "open borders" doesn't add up to such bans).

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#135

Post by rayiner »

garethsprice wrote: post #120
worklogin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration is broken. But you cannot have open borders and a welfare system. It is completely unsustainable.

When going through the US immigration system, as part of the green card application you need to specify a sponsor who will be responsible for you financially if you hit hardship. As an immigrant, you do not get welfare in the US. Source: US immigrant, did the paperwork.

That's not an answer to the point above. Having people who live in our society but are ineligible for our social benefits is harmful and destabilizing to us.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#136

Post by bane »

hguant wrote: post #130
bane wrote: post #72

I sympathize with the author, the path to a green card is ridiculous. [1] But that's where my sympathies stop. It's not a hidden process either. If staying here matters to you better work tirelessly to put yourself on a path to permanent residency and you better be the one to push it daily or it won't happen. Here we have a highly educated, Ivy Leaguer with a LAW DEGREE , who didn't. But about 500,000 people a year d…

Thank you for this. I know janitors, housemaids, and carpenters, as well as engineers and college educators who managed getting a green card just fine. People come here not speaking the language and make their way through the system. It's a byzantine, insane system, but that's government for you. There are people screwed by the immigration system, by Homeland Security, and by pure bad luck. This kid does not sound li…

The system absolutely screws people all the time. But in this case I don't feel like it happened here. This appears to be a case of "I'll just be a good person and things will work out in the end" hopeful wishing.

Never leave things that matter to you up to other people.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#137

Post by Frondo »

worklogin wrote: post #26
murbard2 wrote: post #12

I personally consider that opening borders is a moral imperative, but I understand why it is controversial. I understand that the arguments against "letting everyone in" have some merit, though I ultimately disagree with them. What is a real head scratcher to me is the US policy on highly-skilled immigrants. There are certainly some political constituencies in favor of those, but I can't think of anyone against, at l…

Immigration is broken. But you cannot have open borders and a welfare system. It is completely unsustainable.

Just out of curiosity, can you sketch out some back-of-napkin numbers that would actually show how it's unsustainable?

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#138

Post by cousin_it »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #55
kazinator wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening borders works for multicultural countries built on immigration. For countries that are based on a unique language, ethnicity and culture, it is damaging.

> For countries that are based on a unique language, ethnicity and culture, it is damaging. Let's take those one at a time. Language: Sure, granted, there's a tendency to gravitate towards more common languages. Arguably that's a net benefit for people who would otherwise have grown up only speaking a less common language; learning a more common language grants access to a much larger set of speakers, information, an…

> propagate itself on its own merits

You're right that not all traditions are worth preserving, but Darwinism isn't the best way to choose which traditions are worth preserving. The problem is that ability to propagate does not imply merit. If you put a bad guy and a good guy in a room together, sometimes the bad guy just beats up the good guy, and you realize that you shouldn't have put them together. This is the same kind of fallacy as "if a company went out of business, it must've been a bad company", and also "the invisible hand of gravity means it's good that the vase broke".

For example, there's tons of cultures that think murder for personal grievances is okay and praise-worthy. I've seen first hand what happens when such a culture meets a gentle Western culture, when the latter doesn't have an overwhelming force advantage. It's not pretty.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#139

Post by Nadya »

bruceb wrote: post #113
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From Europe, where people share some culture, they never the less still experience integration issues where locals resent foreign populations, example France and polish workers, or Germany and Serbs or Turks, or Spaniards. It's not really foreign populations per se. The resentment is really mostly socioeconomic. Nobody resents Persians in the Netherlands because the Persians who migrated here are mostly upper-class…

In Europe it is a cultural issue also. There is a reason even Canada has Canadian content laws to protect from the onslaught of American music. It is not unreasonable for people to want to preserve culture.

>It is not unreasonable for people to want to preserve culture.

It has sentimental and historical value, but I don't think it's particularly important. We can argue cultural identity, but that's only important so long as there are various cultures. In a monoculture world, the idea of cultural identity would be a lost concept.

Cultural anthropology, which while highly interesting and informative of human relations, isn't very highly valued by most people. The jobs are in such low demand (and with such low salary) that I decided not to try and get a job as a cultural and linguistic anthropologist. Which, while I'd have loved the work and have found it interesting, I can't exactly say it has much "meaningful" merit.

As for CanCon laws, I've yet to speak to a Canadian that was supportive of them. I'm sure they exist - or the laws wouldn't. A large number of Canadian Netflix users mask their IP to be from America to get "better content" [0]. It seems that Canadian nationalism is mostly a 60's/70's generation thing.

[0] http://o.canada.com/technology/internet/thousands-of-canadia...

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#140

Post by bruceb »

lukeschlather wrote: post #57
ElComradio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it actually been shown that if we were to throw open the borders to STEM employees that it would result in a net economic gain? Because as far as I can tell, movements to get droves of women and immigrants into software is entirely driven by companies' desire for cheaper labor.

We're not really talking about opening the borders to STEM employees. We're talking about keeping highly educated people, educated at US universities, in the country. There is some exploitation that happens, but by and large people are going to pay market rate +-15%, minus administrative costs. Administrative costs for hiring immigrants are extremely high, so it makes sense that their wages might be a bit less. (The…

How is it foreign aid for students to come here pay higher tuition to some schools who would be much worse without them, spend money in the US and then go home? Most students don't come here and save a bunch of money.

They are taking money from their home country and spending it in the US. It is like anti-foreign aid.

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