The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#81

Post by talideon » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:03 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #55

talideon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the confusion here is that you're taking what he's saying in terms other than those of topology. In topology, you deal with manifolds. Manifolds have no thickness , but they do have area. In topology, there's no such thing as a 'filled' sphere: a sphere in topology has no edges and an inside surface and an outside surface, much like a football. There are two ways you can make a 'bottle': you can deform a sphe…

Much helpful, thanks!!

One quick clarifying note: the reason he said in the video that bottles have an edge is because he was treating it as a planar manifold.

Topology is an interesting area of study.

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#82

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:13 PM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #22

His tiny robotic warehouse in the crawlspace of his house is the coolest thing I've seen in a long time. Pure distilled mad science. He's like a living cartoon. I want to be him when I get old so very much!

Absolute genius. Bits & pieces from the junkyard and old drills cobbled together to make a miniature forklift. Lovely!

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#83

Post by eco » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:19 PM UTC

slyall wrote: post #7

Cliff Stoll in case people were wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Stoll I have his original book my shelf, it was fascinating when it came out. His Klein Bottle company is here: http://www.kleinbottle.com/

Wow. Thank you. I didn't make the connection until you wrote that. I really should reread The Cuckoo's Egg.

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#84

Post by david-given » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

talideon wrote: post #46

bambax wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But with an ordinary bottle, the edge is the point (if I may), because if a bottle had no edge, couldn't it be said that has just one ordinary surface? So in fact, what I understand so far is: - a (hollow) sphere has two surfaces, one inside and one outside, and you can't connect one to the other (you can't walk from one to the other) - a potato, or a bowl also have the same properties: two distinct surfaces - a bott…

I think the confusion here is that you're taking what he's saying in terms other than those of topology. In topology, you deal with manifolds. Manifolds have no thickness , but they do have area. In topology, there's no such thing as a 'filled' sphere: a sphere in topology has no edges and an inside surface and an outside surface, much like a football. There are two ways you can make a 'bottle': you can deform a sphe…

...a topologist is someone who can't figure out whether to dip their doughnut into their coffee mug or vice versa.

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#85

Post by david-given » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:31 PM UTC

Sealy wrote: post #49

Roritharr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Copy on Kleinbottle.com is marvelous, its like pouring hot cocoa spiced with love: From http://www.kleinbottle.com/drinking_mug_klein_bottle.htm : "The 7 mm air space separates the inside from the outside, so ice water won't cause condensation. This extends the life of hot or cold drinks, saves energy, and helps stave off the dreaded local thermodynamic equilibrium." But seriously just read the whole page, this i…

I would be curious to know what would happen if you put a carbonated/soda drink in it.

You can't --- it has no inside.

You could probably put a carbonated drink on it, though...

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#86

Post by konradb » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:38 PM UTC

I bought one of these a few years ago and was touched by the personal note written in it. I hadn't realised until now that it was Clifford Stoll who actually sent these! Fascinating video.

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#87

Post by hrayr » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:39 PM UTC

I love this guy, I first saw him in his TED talk [1]. He kinda reminds me of Richard Feynman (similar mannerisms and enthusiasm for science).

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8IA6xOpSk

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#88

Post by escherplex » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

talideon wrote: post #80

escherplex wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but last time I heard, a Klein bottle being only a one sided surface can only be rendered in 4D space with the 'passing through' funnel not breaking or intersecting the curved surface and this can't be rendered in 3D space. Unless recently they've decided to relax that restriction. Nice model though and worth getting but I wonder how best to mount it in a display case.

Yeah, the 3D klein bottle is to a real 4D klein bottle what a circle is to a sphere.

IE, cross-sections or projections. Would be interesting if there were a way to render a Klein bottle using techniques similar to those used when 'impossible triangles' are modeled with boards and 2x4s in fields which then seem to work when viewed from a certain angle. But then what would non-intersecting intersecting lines look like. Sounds like double-think.

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#89

Post by OscarCunningham » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:42 PM UTC

Sealy wrote: post #49

Roritharr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Copy on Kleinbottle.com is marvelous, its like pouring hot cocoa spiced with love: From http://www.kleinbottle.com/drinking_mug_klein_bottle.htm : "The 7 mm air space separates the inside from the outside, so ice water won't cause condensation. This extends the life of hot or cold drinks, saves energy, and helps stave off the dreaded local thermodynamic equilibrium." But seriously just read the whole page, this i…

I would be curious to know what would happen if you put a carbonated/soda drink in it.

Nothing special, as it turns out.

Re: The man with 1,000 klein bottles under his house [video]

#90

Post by Nadya » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 4:56 PM UTC

Roritharr wrote: post #24

slyall wrote: post #7

Cliff Stoll in case people were wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Stoll I have his original book my shelf, it was fascinating when it came out. His Klein Bottle company is here: http://www.kleinbottle.com/

The Copy on Kleinbottle.com is marvelous, its like pouring hot cocoa spiced with love: From http://www.kleinbottle.com/drinking_mug_klein_bottle.htm : "The 7 mm air space separates the inside from the outside, so ice water won't cause condensation. This extends the life of hot or cold drinks, saves energy, and helps stave off the dreaded local thermodynamic equilibrium." But seriously just read the whole page, this i…

>WARNING! Acme constructs each Klein Bottle from genuine Baryonic matter. Do not allow your Acme Klein Bottle to come in contact with antimatter or unpredictable results may occur. Acme cannot guarantee the dimensionality of the result.

Reading any page is a joy.