I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed • Hacker News Board

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#11

Post by josefresco » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:11 PM UTC

Honest question: If the author "had come to America to attend Yale." didn't they also research the requirements for citizenship or an extended stay? Did they decide the benefits outweigh the cons or did they just "hope" things would work out? Maybe they made the decision after attending Yale - was this decision not well informed?

I think criticism of the immigration system is warranted and valid, just that potential immigrants need to understand the flaws in the system before they invest in a new life within America's borders.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#12

Post by murbard2 » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:12 PM UTC

I personally consider that opening borders is a moral imperative, but I understand why it is controversial. I understand that the arguments against "letting everyone in" have some merit, though I ultimately disagree with them.

What is a real head scratcher to me is the US policy on highly-skilled immigrants. There are certainly some political constituencies in favor of those, but I can't think of anyone against, at least not one with a modicum of political pull.

One could imagine a regulatory capture scenario where large companies benefit from the regime, because they have an easier time obtaining visas than their smaller competitors, but in practice even those lobby for more, not less immigration.

So who's lobbying against this exactly?

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#13

Post by drzaiusapelord » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:14 PM UTC

Considering U-6 unemployment is about 12% right now, perhaps this is a feature and not a bug. I still don't understand why Disney and others are allowed to do the things they do with abusing H1B's. Or why firms think they need someone with some fraudulent/substandard foreign degree instead of investing in domestic workers.

There's a discussion about labor to be had here and it should be focused on domestic labor abuses. Unfortunately, these things are rarely discussed and H1B and other abusive programs only rarely flare up in the news, everyone sees them for what they are, but there's no political will to fight them.

Immigration's external costs are ignored as well. The source country is constantly having a brain drain, for example. Its amusing to me to see HN'ers with this pretentious global perspective who have no problem taking the top 20% of the people from countries that need them and thinking themselves humanitarians because they got them a coding job in the valley.

If we started being serious about cutting immigration, there would be more political pressure for these foreign countries to get their shit straight. More local entrepreneurs, more devs focusing on local problems, etc. The status quo right now of fleeing to Western ecomomies just guarantees poor outcomes in poorer nations. We shouldn't be proud of that. Jogesh shouldn't be writing disposable freemium games for some rich guy's son who thinks himself "the next Steve Jobs," he should be helping Indians and the Indian economy with his skills.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#14

Post by warmcat » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:14 PM UTC

For people from some countries like India and China, the wait after finding an employer willing to sponsor green card is still a big killer. Typically people have to wait for 6-7 years now to get green card after first filing it. While I agree with the author, I feel he did not try to find someone willing to sponsor his green card with other employers. If your employer does not respond favorably to your requests about sponsoring your green card, find another employer willing to sponsor it while you still have time left on your current visa. And since the author is from NZ, it would not have taken him more than a year to get his green card had he found someone willing to sponsor him.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#15

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:14 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #8

pierotofy wrote: post #6

Yes the immigration system is broken; it's difficult to obtain sponsorship from an employer. But I feel like the author gave up after asking the few places where he worked. Sometimes you need to try harder.

"Sometimes you need to try harder." You mean search for an employer whom would sponsor citizenship? The article explained it is quite expensive - do employer sponsored citizenships happen?

[deleted]

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#16

Post by vinceguidry » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:14 PM UTC

He's thinking like a desperate poor person and not as the affluent American he aspires to be.

If I were in this position, I'd start a company to employ me and get an investor to foot the bill for keeping me in the US. Someone as smart and well-connected as the author should be able to manage that. It's difficult to get personal goals to align with the government's wishes, but it's not difficult at all to throw money at the problem.

There are scores of ways to get into and stay in the US, the problem is understanding and navigating the bureaucracy. He managed for 15 years. I read stories all the time of creative strategies yielding a green card and eventual citizenship. I don't even ask the many non-Hispanic immigrants I meet whether they have citizenship or not, they all managed to work the system.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#17

Post by vonklaus » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:15 PM UTC

ElComradio wrote: post #7

vonklaus wrote: post #4

A friend of mine works in shipping at a reputable and profitable firm. His roommate, a Greek national also engaged with the firm, was "deported". Twice. He wasn't literally thrown out of the country but it amounted to as much, having similar visa issues. His employer, unlike the author, sponsored him. However, two separate lawyers were unable to secure him a place in the country. One made a costly mistake and was fir…

Has it actually been shown that if we were to throw open the borders to STEM employees that it would result in a net economic gain? Because as far as I can tell, movements to get droves of women and immigrants into software is entirely driven by companies' desire for cheaper labor.

I don't know of a comprehensive study that has been done (although there probably is) that links qualified individuals immigrating with net economic growth. However, if you look at it like VC investing, it would be worth letting 1000 people in to get an entrepreneur capable of making a Stripe, Tesla, etc. According to this forbes article[0] 40 percent of Fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants. Obviously, many were started a long time ago, however I think the sentiment is the same. We want to benefit from brain drains in other countries, and we want smart people who are emigrating to see America as a top choice.

[0]http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#18

Post by ctchocula » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:15 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #10

solve wrote: post #2

The slavery-like dynamics of the immigration system is a surprising mismatch, versus the typical American business culture. For comparison, I've spent time in a few countries where a slavery-like relationship with employers is completely expected and even supported by the employees. (Culture shock!) They imagine that it's the only way that businesses can function. This isn't the type of business culture you want to l…

"even supported by the employees" To which countries are you referring to?

If I had to guess, Japan or South Korea?

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#19

Post by warmcat » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:16 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #8

pierotofy wrote: post #6

Yes the immigration system is broken; it's difficult to obtain sponsorship from an employer. But I feel like the author gave up after asking the few places where he worked. Sometimes you need to try harder.

"Sometimes you need to try harder." You mean search for an employer whom would sponsor citizenship? The article explained it is quite expensive - do employer sponsored citizenships happen?

He means "Search for an employer willing to sponsor your green card". There is no direct route to citizenship unless you are born here.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#20

Post by nitinics » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 3:16 PM UTC

pierotofy wrote: post #6

Yes the immigration system is broken; it's difficult to obtain sponsorship from an employer. But I feel like the author gave up after asking the few places where he worked. Sometimes you need to try harder.

With 2 renewals of 3-year H1B work visa, you do not have much time to shop around for employers sponsoring permanent residency. It is a long process in itself , and usually companies want the employee to work for them until they file the paperwork. That means, you are not putting yourself out there for bigger and better options, even if you have any - since you're tied to the employer until they file. Also the author said it correct - it is extremely difficult for one to startup on their own - since it is not favorable as well on work visas. It just does not make sense that an immigrant having got their higher education in US, are asked to leave and usually the ones that leave may be ambitious, having hopped multiple jobs without tying themselves to one employer and gathered enough expertise in their fields, both academic and industry. Immigration reform in this aspect, is therefore, warranted.