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Just Wear Headphones

mattblodgett.com

181–190 of 217 posts

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#181

I HATE open offices, but man is this article full of absolute nonsense. I mean that in a very literal way -- it has lots of stuff that can not be made sense of because it lacks context or any actual meaning. > I stress to my patients and the parents of my patients that if you can’t hear anything going on around you when listening to headphones, the decibel level is too high. This is just stupid. It ignores type of he…

The problem with your reply to the article is you are overly precise and it doesn't add to the overall conversation. Yes the doctor and ENT advice is imprecise, but also it doesn't make sense giving people advice that isn't actionable. For example, people can't measure the effective loudness of their headphones. They don't know what impedance is, let alone what their headphones have or not.

And finally, on the vulnerability, solid work has been done around working with your back open to an office. The article hardly claims this is caused by headphones, it merely notes that with headphones you can't hear either.

I dont think the frequent use of 'idiot' is really helping your case here. Honestly my advice is to stop, relax, breathe, and think for a moment, perhaps the ENTs you lambaste as idiots, who have spent literally decades thinking about this problem, including the deeper problem of how to teach people, aren't actual idiots. And that they have to market their advice in a useful, actionable manner that is slightly inaccurate. As soon as you stop assuming the rest of the world is stupid, you all of a sudden open yourself up. Good luck with that.

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#182
post #133

Another seemingly imperceptible disruption is vibration, ie "physical noise". I had the bottom-of-the-totem-pole pleasure of having the (open) office space right by the restroom, kitchen, and coffee machine. The major noises were not the main problem; the problem was the stress of people beelining for either of the three with the felicity of an elephant stampede. Add to this office congestion the pleasure of a female…

When I hear something like this, it sound like your pleading for padded shackles. My heart goes out to you.

A friend of mine worked at a place where he was next to metal door to the outside that slammed shut loudly all day. He wore those big industrial earmuffs to try to block it out. This is the Phd physicist/developer who did all the hard math for them...

To my developer brethren (and sisters!), work doesn't have to be like that. There are companies that treat their developers well. You really need to interview the company during the job interview, talk to people that work there before you go, do your research.

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#183

Use noise-attenuating headphones rather than noise-cancelling headphones. A pair of properly fitted IEMs or a good pair of closed headphones will reduce background noise by ~25dB simply by providing a physical barrier to noise. The distracting effects of music largely disappear if you listen to repetitive instrumental music - house or ambient music is ideal for this. If you're concerned about noise-related hearing lo…

To build on your second point, the key is more "instrumental" than "house or ambient", though combining both is indeed ideal. Soma.fm's "Groove Salad" online radio station is a good example of such music.

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats crazy, I am sorry. Is the hearing loss irreversible ?

Hearing loss is indeed irreversible. So take good care of your ears, don't be complacent. (I'm a drummer)

Also a drummer here...for several years I played in extremely loud bands and went to shows without earplugs. By the time I wised up it was too late. Now I have a terrible time hearing conversations in restaurants or other situations where there is background noise. I imagine in my later years I'll probably need hearing aids.

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#185

I HATE open offices, but man is this article full of absolute nonsense. I mean that in a very literal way -- it has lots of stuff that can not be made sense of because it lacks context or any actual meaning. > I stress to my patients and the parents of my patients that if you can’t hear anything going on around you when listening to headphones, the decibel level is too high. This is just stupid. It ignores type of he…

"This is just stupid. It ignores type of headphone entirely. " It sounds pretty smart to me. What else is the doctor supposed to do? Until the silly Beats craze took off, one could have made a statement like that and it would have been accurate for >99% of headphones users. Assuming that the user is listening to the pack-in IEMs (or IEMs with a very similar profile) plugged into a phone or iPod would have been a safe…

> I find such music is also very distracting. I find good symphonic music much more interesting than boring Pop music. Interesting -> distracting.

So find some boring (or at least repetetive/uninteresting) instrumental music.

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#186
post #176

Is it time to get depressed yet? This has been a topic for such a long time. It was in people ware in 1987. I thought I discovered the topic when Joel (On Sofware) wrote about it in 2000. While a few people seem to enjoy open offices, the overwhelming majority of developers I know, or who chime in on HN, value a quiet place to work and dislike open offices. And yet, not only has nothing changed, it seems to be gettin…

I've been writing software professionally since the late 1980s. So, I've observed this trend and the industry over a long period. I first worked for a startup in the early 1990s, and before that I worked mostly in small businesses.

30 years ago programmers were highly respected. We were mysterious to others and we were able to influence things like office layouts and the like.

At some point over that time period, things shifted. Programmers became seen as "geeks" who didn't really understand business and "business guys" took over. These people don't understand technology and they have disdain for it. I'm talking, in fact, about not just enterprise (Were for a long time the "IT Manager" who was not really technical ruled)... but startups where "business guys" end up being the CEOs.

They think that giving us big monitors and nice computers is valuable, and they do it, but they have no consideration for our workspace and will save even a tiny amount to have an "open plan". They have no concept that we might know what we're talking about because "office space is the realm of business.".

I saw this directly last year-- an office with 2 business people and 14 engineers. One of the "biz guys" was the "manager". They went looking for offices and didn't invite any of the engineers, of course, and came back talking about how great the office they chose was. How it was open plan and all that, and we'd really love it. This is after telling them before they even talked to the real estate person that open plan was the one thing we absolutely didn't want. They looked at several places that had been built out with lots of individual offices but they didn't like it because it was "too dark". OF course once they made up their mind about what THEY wanted, all of our comments were seen just as whining and it was "too late". (even though it wasn't as even to this date they haven't signed a lease due to other factors.)

In the 1950s a great many women went into the work force and there were huge numbers of them employed as secretaries. This was the era of the "Steno pool" and their job title was "typist". They were meant to sit and type at the typewritiers. Because they sit punching a keyboard all day (And because they were women) they didn't have much prestige. Business types don't see it as real work.

This is how programmers are seen today-- we're just typists "arranging the little ones and zeros" (direct quote from that boss last year)

There is no respect for us.

It's the fundamental difference between the "enlisted" and the "officers", the "managers" and the "grunts". We're grunts, and we're meant to be interchangeable cogs-- that's why they'd rather employ a dozen mediocre java developers than one brilliant erlangist. We're not capable of decision making and we have no understanding beyond our weird obsession with those stupid computers. -- that's how they see us. They'll lie and say otherwise, but deep down and a fundamental level, that's how non-technical people see us.

And I think we don't really deserve it until we stop joining places like this.

Whenever I see a startup with an open office plan I don't apply. But I think I'm making a mistake. I should apply, go thru the process until I see the office, and then tell them right then and there "sorry, your website said you value employees but by putting engineers in an open office it's obvious you don't".

Of course that won't accomplish anything.

The only people as low on the totem pole as engineers is HR, and HR feels the need to lord over others, so of course they couldn't care less about the needs of engineers (or any employees really.)

So, I call on YC and other venture investors. Start asking founders what kind of office they want and then don't invest in the ones who advocate for an open plan for developers.

I bet that alone boosts returns.

Further, I personally will no longer work for companies where the CEO is non-technical unless I'm the CTO, and even then I have concerns. (Eg: as CTO I need to have absolute authority over things like office arrangements for engineers.)

High tech companies where the CEO is not technically proficient are far less likely to be effective.

We need to demolish the idea that engineers can't lead and don't understand business.

As someone whose learned business, it's a lot easier to learn than adding another programming language to your repertoire.

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#187
As someone with a life long case of VERY serious, diagnosed, and treated ADHD, one that is exacerbated by noise (I also have an auditory processing disorder); I often feel I have to take myself out of the running for any job in an open plan office.

Theoretically the Americans with Disabilities Act would allow me to ask for accommodation for this. Practically speaking, my coaches tell me never to ask for it, as employers don't get it and think you're making excuses.

But the fact is, I do have a disability and it's the cognitive equivalent of asking a person in a wheelchair to use steps to get to work.

And as an introvert, I find offices exhausting, the constant demand to be "On" is not only distracting but productivity limiting--especially pointless meetings where I have to work very hard to manage my limited attention span.

Yet another example of how silicon valley culture works for a tiny sliver of the population.

working from home is the best solution. I never go to a coffee shop--even that is too distracting. I schedule meetings with clients in chunks of time that are better for me (afternoons vs my very precious productive mornings) and I batch them so I'm not constantly context switching.

PS I'm not a developer--so you devs aren't the only ones suffering! Good writing and marketing needs thinking time too!

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#188
"Science says we're full of it. Listening to music hurts our ability to recall other stimuli, and any pop song -- loud or soft -"

Not very useful article if they assume I'm gonna be listening to pop music. If the writer didn't even care to talk about other types of music this is basically a very poor written post.

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#189

I've found Music for Programming's mixes to be pretty good. http://musicforprogramming.net/ Dream Chimney's mixes on soundcloud also. https://soundcloud.com/the-dream-chimney In general, something classical, ambient, or minimal techno fits the bill.

http://noisli.com is really great. Mix your own ambient sounds.

Re: Just Wear Headphones

#190
The past year I just got an office and so happy I have my back to a wall. The amount of stress from people walking behind me was getting too much to take.

I tend to find it funny that management that proposes the Open Office idea tend to be the ones who are in offices.

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