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“AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming during customer’s free trial period”

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Re: “AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming during customer’s free trial period”

#101
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. But the trial could be significantly lower. They're not saying. It's worth nothing that by "higher rates" we are talking about a hundredth of a cent per stream.

Yep. And it appears that the Artists, like the music industry, really don't get that things have changed. Hey, I'm old school. I can identify with them. I like to buy my music. I don't get subscriptions where if I stop playing I can't listen to anything.... but I find myself listening to podcasts-- 2 hour long podcast of EDM. My favorite one has several YEARS of podcasts and despite skipping months at a time I'm stil…

> In the long run Taylor Swift will make more money from a free trial than if Apple offered the service without a free trial-- because more people will sign up and ultimately end up with royalties going to Taylor.

Someone did the math and came to a different conclusion: https://www.baekdal.com/opinion/taylor-swift-is-right-about-... . Assuming Apple Music generates $ 10 billion in revenue per year, artists never make up the cost while Apple saves $1.6 billion the first year of Apple Music.

Re: “AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming during customer’s free trial period”

#103

First sentence of her letter was "I write this to explain why I’ll be holding back my album, 1989, from the new streaming service, Apple Music." So now, she needs to allow it on Apple Music or she'll look like a jerk. Apple will have this album that no other streaming service has, and they got a ton of press for it. Probably worked out pretty well for them.

even that first sentence executes perfect product placement. 'blah blah my album, 1989, blah blah new streaming service, Apple Music'

Reminded me of this cartoon: http://mngboxers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/gary-larson-...

Re: “AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming during customer’s free trial period”

#104
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly surprised it's that low. I know the difference is supposed to be that Apple Music accounts will all be 'paying'. But if they're only paying out low-single-digit higher rates than Spotify, I don't see how it's supposed to be meaningfully different than Spotify Premium or Tidal, except that people paying for Spotify/Tidal through iDevices are paying $13/month instead of $10, and $3 is still going to Apple.…

The Major Difference is Apple will not be offering an ongoing free tier to compete against their paid tier. That's got to be attractive to people like Taylor.

The goal is obviously to convert free tier users to paid tier users. If you can do that, then eventually this stunt might pay off, at least for the record companies and artists who last enough to absorb 3 months of missing revenue. But if you're converting someone from a different paid service and not paying the artists, you are literally taking money away from them, and making them pay for your bet.

It does not at all seem clear that you're going to convert a ton of free users - like you said in a child comment, there are numerous other places where people can stream music for free. It seems like an admirable goal, but then that's how Spotify pitched it's model to begin with as well.

Re: “AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming during customer’s free trial period”

#106

The extraordinarily cynical side of me wonders if this is all just a massive co-branding PR exercise to dominate the news cycle with "Taylor Swift", "Apple", "Free Music", "Apple Music." Highly unlikely because it's not the type of underhanded marketing that Apple engages in, but man - All I've been reading about, seeing in my twitter feed, is talk about the 90 Day free Music Trial with Apple coming up. This has been…

You're overthinking this. They're simply not that Machivellian.

Re: “AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming during customer’s free trial period”

#107
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. And it appears that the Artists, like the music industry, really don't get that things have changed. Hey, I'm old school. I can identify with them. I like to buy my music. I don't get subscriptions where if I stop playing I can't listen to anything.... but I find myself listening to podcasts-- 2 hour long podcast of EDM. My favorite one has several YEARS of podcasts and despite skipping months at a time I'm stil…

> In the long run Taylor Swift will make more money from a free trial than if Apple offered the service without a free trial-- because more people will sign up and ultimately end up with royalties going to Taylor. Someone did the math and came to a different conclusion: https://www.baekdal.com/opinion/taylor-swift-is-right-about-... . Assuming Apple Music generates $ 10 billion in revenue per year, artists never make…

Thomas Baekdal's calculation model[1] is fundamentally flawed to conclude with "artists never make up the cost".

Apple may be right or wrong with their optimistic projections but people need to at least understand the business proposition they are offering. The concept of "making up the cost" has nothing to do with recovering the 3 free months from Apple as if it was a closed economic system. The idea is that the musician recovers the 3 free months from the entire music industry because Apple will have a wider audience and a bigger platform.

flawed model: get $0 for 3 months and never get it back whether the future Apple payments total $1 billion, $10 trillion, or infinity.

Apple's model: get $0 for 3 months but you (potentially) come ahead because we pay higher royalty AND we have the potential to convert a bigger % of 800 million iTunes accounts to paid streaming subscribers which will exceed Spotify's 20 million subscribers.

In other words, the artist is supposed to make business comparisons based on:

-- lost $$ for not being on Apple's platform and only providing music to Tidal & Spotify

-- more $$ from customers switching away from Spotify

-- more $$ from new streaming customers that would never have paid for Spotify but would subscribe to Apple Music because the app is already preloaded on the iPhone and there's less friction

(Each musician was supposed to weigh those bullet points to see if the big picture of skipping 3 months of payment made financial sense. It may or may not.)

As an analogy, it's as if a merchant concludes that accepting credit cards will "never make up the cost" because paying the monthly fees for the VISA/Mastercard mag swipe terminal and the transaction rates of 2% will never be paid back by the VISA/MC corporate entity. That's only true if one has a bizarre concept of thinking of the payment network as a closed system.

However, rational businessmen think outside of the CC payment system and conclude that accepting credit cards is net positive because behavior analysis shows that customers spend more when they can use a credit card instead of cash or checks.

[1] Thomas Baekdal's arithmetic and logic:

  If we assume Apple Music will have $10 billion in revenue per year, we get this:

  First year: 
  70% royalty / no free trail = $7 billion to artists
  71.5% royalty / 3 months free = $5.4 billion to artists
  After five years:
  70% royalty / no free trail = $35 billion to artists
  71.5% royalty / 3 months free = $33.9 billion to artists
  After 10 years
  70% royalty / no free trail = $70 billion to artists
  71.5% royalty / 3 months free = $69.7 billion to artists
  So, the artists never make up the cost while Apple saves
  $1.6 billion the first year of Apple Music.*

Re: “AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming during customer’s free trial period”

#108
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really think this is the case, do you? It's like any conspiracy theory: think about how many people would have to be "in it" to make it work. Then think, what are the chances of none of them, ever letting anything slip. To anyone. Ever. The chances are almost zero. People talk. The damage - to Swift, to Apple - it's just too large. Therefore, this is not what you think it is. There is no deeper story here.…

I don't believe the conspiracy theory that they colluded with Taylor Swift either. But I don't think they would have had to - she's been fairly vocal about free streaming the last couple months, this reaction should have been easily expected. Far more likely than apple planning this with her is apple anticipating her reaction (or if not her, somebody. Jay Z likes to make noise about streaming royalties too). Either t…

Eh. Conspiracy theories thrive because people just can't believe that morally-grey area people seem to keep making out like bandits from bad situations.

No one did anything. A thing happened, it backfired, some people sat down and figured out a solution, are still richer then you will ever be at the end.

Re: “AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming during customer’s free trial period”

#109
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the new trial rates will be broadly similar to Spotify's per-stream rates, which average[1] between $0.006 and $0.0084. Apple Music has no advertising; you can't pay a percentage of revenue that doesn't exist. 1. http://www.spotifyartists.com/spotify-explained/

They're licensing the music. Whether they make any revenue or not doesn't matter. You can't hand out other people's stuff for free and then refuse to pay anything because you didn't make any money from it. And I'm saying that as someone who thinks the current copyright system is incredibly broken.

Likewise an artist can choose not to have their music on the service.

Re: “AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming during customer’s free trial period”

#110
post #109
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're licensing the music. Whether they make any revenue or not doesn't matter. You can't hand out other people's stuff for free and then refuse to pay anything because you didn't make any money from it. And I'm saying that as someone who thinks the current copyright system is incredibly broken.

Likewise an artist can choose not to have their music on the service.

That point is valid, but Apple is trying to create a de-facto monopoly and even now it's really an oligopoly (which is only marginally better but in many ways worse). In such situations the power balance shifts dramatically and for many artists the choice they have is philosophical at best.
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