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Why is it taking longer and longer to fill open jobs?

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Re: Why is it taking longer and longer to fill open jobs?

#81

Post by johnsberd »

ryandrake wrote: post #52
GreenPlastic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaned on the company's official materials for this. Employee focused culture where we work hard and play hard. XX on best companies to work for list. Fast growing company with great benefits, dogs allowed at work, etc.

Here are some things I'd LOVE to see on a job posting, but never have: 1. Interview process MAX 1 afternoon. We commit to AFFIRMATIVELY giving you an accept or reject within 2 weeks. (in other words, we respect your time) 2. Need to hire for this position by [DATE]. (this is a real job opportunity and we are not just fishing) 3. We're not going to ask you to spend a weekend on a work sample or to write code for us fo…

This would be amazing if companies did this. Maybe something like this should be encouraged for the monthly who's hiring posts. I've noticed a few places starting to list salary range and it seems to be well perceived.

Re: Why is it taking longer and longer to fill open jobs?

#82

Post by eropple »

GreenPlastic wrote: post #31
smil wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So compensation is not relevant to your point at all since you didn't list it. Or were you looking for mind readers? The low response rate makes sense in that case.

Fair enough, but the information is publicly available on glassdoor. A couple reasons why I didn't list comp: 1. I didn't want to get candidates purely motivated by the high cash comp in the area. 2. Cash comp isn't core to how the company markets itself to employees and its culture. The company prefers to sell itself on being an employee friendly place to work. Like the article hypothesizes, I thought we'd get 50-10…

> I didn't want to get candidates purely motivated by the high cash comp in the area.

This is an extreme red flag for me. While your motives may be better, as I don't know you and won't assume, I've never met a potential employer who said that who wasn't trying to run a cult. I contend that there is no "employee friendly" company (outside of cooperatives, which don't really exist in tech) and that company culture is generally used to exert pressure to make people overwork themselves for somebody else's gain.

The best people, as well as best developers, I've ever worked with are nearly fully coin-operated (with obvious carve-outs for "not working for terrible people," etc.). They do excellent work, expect to be paid well for it, and go home.

If they "play hard," it's not with their co-workers.

Re: Why is it taking longer and longer to fill open jobs?

#83

Post by raverbashing »

slyall wrote: post #51
memracom wrote: post #39

Don't well written cover letters help employers quickly evaluate a large number of applications? And don't complain that you don't get them along with the resumes. 1) Ask for a cover letter explaining why you are a fit for the job. 2) Discard applications that don't include them. 3) Resist the urge to look through the resumes anyway. And if you directly ask for a cover letter, and you get anm application that doesn't…

> Ask for a cover letter explaining why you are a fit for the job How does this help anything. Plenty of these out there which the applicant can attached to the application. "I am very enthusiastic to leverage my [INSERT HERE] skills to help [COMPANY] transform the [WHATEVER] industry "

This

99% of cover letters will just be, self-importance exaggeration, prospective employer excessive praise, etc.

Re: Why is it taking longer and longer to fill open jobs?

#84

Post by PythonicAlpha »

One of the problems IMHO is, that employers get more and more demanding.

There is this joke, that fits very good: "If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers" [1]

In former days, the readiness to take people and train them on the job was much higher. In Germany this is a really ugly trend. The licence for truck drivers is very, very costly but the earnings of the drivers are very low. In former days the transportation companies educated their own drivers. Today, they don't. They just expect, that the drivers somehow have to have the education and come from somewhere. What is the result: The state is in more and more cases educating unemployed people that they can become truck drivers. They pay tax money, that the transporting companies don't have to pay for it ...

I don't think, that a "free market" has to mean that more and more costs have to been taken over by the state, but that is, what is happening.

Today, when you apply for a job, they search for exactly those skills needed. They are not ready to train you on the job or take people that have to do a lot of learning on the job. And also in Germany: They are not ready to take people above a specific age.

[1] http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa650...

Re: Why is it taking longer and longer to fill open jobs?

#85

Post by sergiosgc »

GreenPlastic wrote: post #31
smil wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So compensation is not relevant to your point at all since you didn't list it. Or were you looking for mind readers? The low response rate makes sense in that case.

Fair enough, but the information is publicly available on glassdoor. A couple reasons why I didn't list comp: 1. I didn't want to get candidates purely motivated by the high cash comp in the area. 2. Cash comp isn't core to how the company markets itself to employees and its culture. The company prefers to sell itself on being an employee friendly place to work. Like the article hypothesizes, I thought we'd get 50-10…

>The company prefers to sell itself on being an employee friendly place to work.

For senior good developers, an employee friendly culture is an hygienic factor, not a competitive factor. By not posting compensation you cheated yourself out of your order winner.

Re: Why is it taking longer and longer to fill open jobs?

#86

Post by PythonicAlpha »

d4nt wrote: post #65

My theory is that people are shopping around for better employers and better cultural fit, and that it's not just a question of taking the highest offer any more. That would explain why wages are not rising.

If the problem would be just employees "shopping around" that would not explain, why wages are not rising. If they would shop around, wages would also rise, even when they are only marginal interested in wages ... (show me 3 employees that are not interested in wages)

Re: Why is it taking longer and longer to fill open jobs?

#87

Post by rwallace »

GreenPlastic wrote: post #37
xeni wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, why exactly don't you list compensation? Also, I think you should mention some details: The size of the team -- lone iOS developer, small team (2-4 people), or larger? Whether the application is a standalone mobile app (and the business is built around it), or simply a frontend for a pre-existing web application/product. (i.e. Working on Tinder versus working on OKCupid's mobile app) Disregard this if you includ…

See above. Mostly because I thought that listing cash comp was inconsistent with how the company markets itself to employees and the company's culture, which tends to be more on the humble side. I did have some information about the work in there but nothing really about the team size - I'll keep that in mind for future listings. Completely agree on your statement that the type of candidate you'll attract depends on…

I don't know why someone downvoted you - a clear and honest answer deserves an upvote in my opinion.

But, while I understand what you're saying, and for all I know maybe being humble works well for you as internal company culture, humble really isn't a good marketing strategy - there's a good reason why marketing if anything traditionally errors on the side of boastfulness! I don't advocate exaggeration, but if you really are offering good pay and good working conditions, you should specify this in your job listing. Remember, in many cases a candidate will start off knowing nothing about your company except what he sees in the listing.

Re: Why is it taking longer and longer to fill open jobs?

#90

Post by mhurron »

GreenPlastic wrote: post #31
smil wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So compensation is not relevant to your point at all since you didn't list it. Or were you looking for mind readers? The low response rate makes sense in that case.

Fair enough, but the information is publicly available on glassdoor. A couple reasons why I didn't list comp: 1. I didn't want to get candidates purely motivated by the high cash comp in the area. 2. Cash comp isn't core to how the company markets itself to employees and its culture. The company prefers to sell itself on being an employee friendly place to work. Like the article hypothesizes, I thought we'd get 50-10…

> I didn't want to get candidates purely motivated by the high cash comp in the area.

All I see is an employer who isn't willing to pay, and then I move on from that listing.

Even with how little time and work goes to sending a resume now, you're listing hasn't made it worth the time it does take.

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