Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is it normal for founders of startups to not sleep?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 62 posts

Ask HN: Is it normal for founders of startups to not sleep?

#1

Post by thrwAwayQues »

Hi HN, I left a job at a respectable corporation to join a YC startup that had raised capital to build out the team and execute their vision. The lead founder of the company sends emails at all hours of the night, even 3 or 4AM and talks about how little sleep he is getting like it is a badge of honor. I have worked at several other companies with extremely effective coworkers, and have never seen this type of behavior before.

I am concerned that he is too tired to make decisions effectively and may be making cognitive errors. I have no evidence that this is taking place so far, except some small errors here and there, but where there is smoke there is fire right? I’m usually a pretty direct guy, but I have ruled out talking to him about it because I do not think there is a way to make the conversation productive.

What I am asking is:

Is it normal for founders to send emails at random times all night to the team (most nights)? If it is not normal, have others experience founders that did that and am I overreacting? Are there any examples of people who are successful who exhibit this behavior and are those simply antidotes? Is anyone aware of whether this is a good or bad sign?

Re: Ask HN: Is it normal for founders of startups to not sleep?

#3

Post by thrwAwayQues »

Retra wrote: post #2

Some people can go on very little sleep. Bragging about it is immature, but it isn't a sign that something is wrong by itself.

Sometimes it comes up and he talks about getting no sleep like everyone should be doing it. It is not aggressive, but maybe passive aggressive? I'm not even really sure, but it definitely makes me uncomfortable. Maybe this is my real concern with it?

Re: Ask HN: Is it normal for founders of startups to not sleep?

#4

Post by automathematics »

Ignoring the "bragging" part, yeah it's normal.

You are joining a startup. To you it's just a great opportunity at a job that seemed interesting to you. To the founder, it's his life. At 2:30am you might be leaving the bar thinking about whether to call an Uber or a Lyft. Your founders are probably awake thinking about how they're going to get that new feature out the door.

I started my own startup a little over 2 years ago. It's pretty normal every night between 2 and 5am for one of the three founders to send a message to another about something they're freaking out about.

He's not thinking "Oh it's 3am, I shouldn't email my employee this late". He's thinking "There's something on my mind about my company and I need to get it off my chest".

If you start your own company and get a few employees it makes a lot more sense VERY quickly.

Don't worry, he/she's just very invested.

Re: Ask HN: Is it normal for founders of startups to not sleep?

#7

Post by Gatsky »

I think that people greatly overestimate the productivity gained by sacrificing sleep. For intellectually taxing work I think it is probably detrimental overall, particularly if chronically sleep derived. Lots of high profile successful people say the don't sleep, but this may largely reflect their exceptional drive and dedication, rather than any real benefits.

The second thing to consider is the use of stimulants like modafinil, apparently quite common in the startup community.

Re: Ask HN: Is it normal for founders of startups to not sleep?

#8

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

> Is it normal for founders to send emails at random times all night to the team (most nights)?

In my opinion, this question is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how the founder's behavior makes you feel.

You say that you have worked with people who are extremely effective but never seen similar behavior. You say you are concerned that the founder is too tired and may be exhibiting poor decision-making. And, perhaps most importantly, you don't feel comfortable broaching the subject with him.

It appears your gut is telling you that something is off here. When it comes to where you invest your time professionally, you can usually do far worse than to follow your intuition.

Re: Ask HN: Is it normal for founders of startups to not sleep?

#10

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

automathematics wrote: post #4

Ignoring the "bragging" part, yeah it's normal. You are joining a startup. To you it's just a great opportunity at a job that seemed interesting to you. To the founder, it's his life. At 2:30am you might be leaving the bar thinking about whether to call an Uber or a Lyft. Your founders are probably awake thinking about how they're going to get that new feature out the door. I started my own startup a little over 2 ye…

Even if one is generous and assumes this kind of behavior is typically well-intentioned, it's foolish to believe that it won't become a detriment as you grow your business.

A lot of startup founders don't think much about management principles and the importance of perception in an organization, but these things matter. When founders are emailing around the clock, many employees will come away with the perception that they're expected to be available at all hours of the day and night too. Your employees are never going to be as invested as you, so this typically creates stress and dissatisfaction for employees more than it motivates and impresses them.

As this Ask HN post demonstrates, a workaholic warrior complex is also a great way to convince your employees that you're an "i" word (insane, insensitive, imbalanced, incompetent, etc.).

Post reply on HN