Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses • Hacker News Board

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#21

Post by WildUtah » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

js2 wrote: post #9

revelation wrote: post #6

Endurance sports like running will lead (even in healthy individuals) to very very mild cases of orthostatic intolerance . If you go from sitting to standing, you might get lightheaded for a few seconds as the body is too slow to react. More here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2343225/pdf/tjp0...

Interesting. I've been a runner for over a decade and run 50+ miles/week. I experience light-headedness going from sitting to standing a few times a week.

I bicycle 150 miles a week mostly on steep mountain roads. I seldom faint, but hopping out of bed to go take care of chores in the morning usually results in brief loss of balance and eyesight as my head loses blood pressure for a few seconds.

Sometimes I have to sit down in the bedroom door frame so that I don't faint and collapse. Once I'm up though, my body is full of vigor.

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#22

Post by brandonmenc » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

emiliobumachar wrote: post #19

plg wrote: post #4

"I can't breathe!" "Am I getting a medal?" Well done, American society, well done parents. Edit: I realize this is a snarky comment but this was my initial reading of the article. Sure she is brave. I guess? This just seems rather extreme. It's sure not the kind of values I would want to see in my kids. You know, breathing, and staying conscious, and not depriving one's brain or body of oxygen, these are sort of impo…

My wife has NCS, and a titanium pin in her skull from her worst fall. First, her doctor does clear her for exercise as well, the benefits outweight the risks. Second, there is no cure. It gets better with age, over decades. If you're going to restrain yourself because you're sick, well, it's forever. I can certainly understand those who choose to live with the restrictions for increased safety. But I bet you can also…

The exercise and the passing out won't kill her, but you can die (or worse) when your head hits the ground.

If I had this condition I'd consider switching to exercises where I'm seated, or in a padded gym. Does your wife take that into consideration when choosing how to exercise? Genuinely interested.

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#23

Post by emiliobumachar » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 9:55 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #22

emiliobumachar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has NCS, and a titanium pin in her skull from her worst fall. First, her doctor does clear her for exercise as well, the benefits outweight the risks. Second, there is no cure. It gets better with age, over decades. If you're going to restrain yourself because you're sick, well, it's forever. I can certainly understand those who choose to live with the restrictions for increased safety. But I bet you can also…

The exercise and the passing out won't kill her, but you can die (or worse) when your head hits the ground. If I had this condition I'd consider switching to exercises where I'm seated, or in a padded gym. Does your wife take that into consideration when choosing how to exercise? Genuinely interested.

She's no athlete, but she hits the gym twice a week. A month ago, she took up tennis on a third day per week, which is much riskier, but she's passionate about it.

She usually has symptoms in time to stop and sit down, and she has not had crises in a couple months now. But it's always a shadow.

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#24

Post by jacalata » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 10:08 PM UTC

ggreer wrote: post #17

plg wrote: post #4

"I can't breathe!" "Am I getting a medal?" Well done, American society, well done parents. Edit: I realize this is a snarky comment but this was my initial reading of the article. Sure she is brave. I guess? This just seems rather extreme. It's sure not the kind of values I would want to see in my kids. You know, breathing, and staying conscious, and not depriving one's brain or body of oxygen, these are sort of impo…

There's really no winning here. Had Sam's school prevented her from competing, there would probably be a comment addressing liability and blaming the litigiousness of US culture. Sam's behavior is not an indictment of American society or her parents. In the article, her parents care deeply for her. They were extremely concerned about her health, and only allowed her to run again once doctors deemed her fainting benig…

Pole vaulting used to kill about 1 person per year in the US, but after rule changes in 2003 it went down to about 1 every five years -http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22582223

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#25

Post by ggreer » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 10:08 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #22

emiliobumachar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has NCS, and a titanium pin in her skull from her worst fall. First, her doctor does clear her for exercise as well, the benefits outweight the risks. Second, there is no cure. It gets better with age, over decades. If you're going to restrain yourself because you're sick, well, it's forever. I can certainly understand those who choose to live with the restrictions for increased safety. But I bet you can also…

The exercise and the passing out won't kill her, but you can die (or worse) when your head hits the ground. If I had this condition I'd consider switching to exercises where I'm seated, or in a padded gym. Does your wife take that into consideration when choosing how to exercise? Genuinely interested.

While those with NCS worry more about it, head injuries from falling are a concern of everyone. At almost every cross-country or track meet I've been to, at least one runner has collapsed from exhaustion or lack of oxygen to the brain. Some are more prone to it than others, but it's a risk that participants are aware of and accept. Races rarely happen on asphalt or cement, so falls (by themselves) aren't as dangerous as you might think. It also helps that, even while losing consciousness, runners tend to stick their arms out and cushion their fall.

For most distance runners, their biggest worry is getting trampled. Racing shoes have metal spikes on the bottom.[1] Like fainting, some are more prone to getting trampled than others (typically smaller runners). I've fallen at the start of a race and had my ribs cracked and skin perforated. It's certainly not fun, but it's a risk everyone accepts.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_spikes

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#26

Post by byuu » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 10:15 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #6

Endurance sports like running will lead (even in healthy individuals) to very very mild cases of orthostatic intolerance . If you go from sitting to standing, you might get lightheaded for a few seconds as the body is too slow to react. More here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2343225/pdf/tjp0...

I have that problem, and I don't exercise at all. Happens probably once or twice a week. Almost always from going from sitting to walking too quickly.

Usually, as long as I grab onto something and stay still, it passes after about 20-30 seconds of my vision blacking out and my thoughts getting all jumbled and incomprehensible.

I've only fully blacked out from it once, coming to and realizing I was twitching on the floor.

I've been led to believe that it's a fairly common condition, though.

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#27

Post by urda » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

plg wrote: post #4

"I can't breathe!" "Am I getting a medal?" Well done, American society, well done parents. Edit: I realize this is a snarky comment but this was my initial reading of the article. Sure she is brave. I guess? This just seems rather extreme. It's sure not the kind of values I would want to see in my kids. You know, breathing, and staying conscious, and not depriving one's brain or body of oxygen, these are sort of impo…

100% snarky, and has no place in the comment section here on Hacker News. I expected better.

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#28

Post by todd8 » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 10:57 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #6

Endurance sports like running will lead (even in healthy individuals) to very very mild cases of orthostatic intolerance . If you go from sitting to standing, you might get lightheaded for a few seconds as the body is too slow to react. More here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2343225/pdf/tjp0...

I've noticed this too back when I ran a lot. The trick I use when this starts to happen is to tense my thigh and abdominal muscles. I believe that the legs have veins designed to return blood to your core (and hopefully reach your head) when muscle contractions squeeze the veins. It seems to work for me (almost instantly).

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#29

Post by plg » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 10:58 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #20

plg wrote: post #4

"I can't breathe!" "Am I getting a medal?" Well done, American society, well done parents. Edit: I realize this is a snarky comment but this was my initial reading of the article. Sure she is brave. I guess? This just seems rather extreme. It's sure not the kind of values I would want to see in my kids. You know, breathing, and staying conscious, and not depriving one's brain or body of oxygen, these are sort of impo…

Oh, please. She had a goal and she was pushing herself to reach it, despite the fact that she has an abnormal medical condition. I'm failing to see how that's a failure either of parenting or American society. The article states that, "All of the doctors they visited cleared Sam to run." The father notes, "If we didn’t have the utmost medical clearance for her to run, she wouldn’t be running." So apparently doctors d…

but to the extent that you pass out and/or collapse? again and again? each race?

I see your point, and having clearance from a doctor helps argue against my concerns that's for sure.

Re: Race After Race, Teenager Crosses Finish Line, Then Collapses

#30

Post by Gatsky » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 10:59 PM UTC

This is a very odd story. When other runners finish the race, they stop and have a drink. When she finishes she is carried like a resurrected messiah by her entourage who then fawn over her while she wakes up. People are complicated... I would be wondering if there was an element of secondary gain and abnormal psychology in this behaviour. That she wants to study medicine to cure NCS is another read flag for abnormal illness behaviour.

I also wouldn't clear her to run if she collapses every time - I mean if she falls and dies from a freak head injury, and she had fallen the same way in the last 50 races, how can the doctor defend themselves? It's just common sense. She should at least wear a crash helmet.